Car shows and the great divide

[Peter]

Originally Posted by rez333

You get a prize for spelling, fur shur!!!

wow thanks, you for being as ass about my spelling, I am dyslexic so for spelling and reading on the computer is hard for me. When you can't win an argument you just find something to make fun of the person. Nice

[Peter]

Originally Posted by rez333

I'll take a stab at explaining it to you. Modifying to ME is mainly about performance upgrades and apparently you have done none. That's why people say you are winning ricer shows, because you have only done ricer mods - "mods" that have no performance value.

I think there are 3 types of shows:
1. Vintage shows that appreciate a vintage type car in immaculate condition
2. Performance type shows that appreciate performance work
3. Ricer type shows that appreciate interiors, stickers, neon lights, stereos, video monitors and giant stonking rear spoilers.

If that is true then I should never win a show. I have never been to a show like that. I have taken many awards from shows like Magic Dragon that is geared for classic and muscle cars alike. And if the show just like I stated before tell what the show is. I would never take my car to a Vintage car show and never have, or a performance show when they state that. This show all it said for the class was modified 2010+ if they would of said at any place on the flyer or website this show is gear for v8 performance vehicles I would of not came because the show was stated that. But they did not at any time when I was registering or on the website or flyer say that.

[EFI]

You are exactly the type of person I am talking about, an ignorant muscle head that can't see the beauty in a vehicle unless it has a big motor.

How is putting nitrous on a car modifying it? To be in a modified car class. And no I have never taken my car to a import show, I have never owned anything but a chevy my entire life so I am not a ricer.

Lets racap what you are saying, you have a stock car but you do motor work into it and that is a modified car. Explain that to me. Or if I was to take my car and take the v6 out and put a ss stock v8 in it then I would deserve to win a modified car class. But if you are talking about horse power and speed a new 10+ v6 stock will crush any stock pre 2010 v8 that is a na car.

That's not true, I consider the beauty of all cars regardless of engine size.

Yours however with all that crap on it is not good looking and considered riceish. That's why you "won" all those trophies at rice conventions and got no attention at muscle car shows.

Even if all your modifications were done to the interior/exterior (without touching the engine) but looked decent, you would've had a chance in most shows. When your rice your shit out, you don't win at muscle car shows.

Yes but don't you think that being a judge you should score the vehicles on the score sheet with a non biased opinion?

Unless there are hard set rules/scoring in the show, EVERY judge will be scoring cars based on opinion. Muscle car show judged don't care for audio crap, while import car show judges do.

[myold88]

Originally Posted by Peter

Yes but don't you think that being a judge you should score the vehicles on the score sheet with a non biased opinion?

So much complaining.
1) your assuming all judges are biased and
2) you sound like one of those guys that parks at a show and then
never walks more than 5 feet from their car to really check out the
other cars..... Life's too short to worry about dust collectors.

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Originally Posted by myold88

So much complaining.
1) your assuming all judges are biased and
2) you sound like one of those guys that parks at a show and then
never walks more than 5 feet from their car to really check out the
other cars..... Life's too short to worry about dust collectors.

This. You sure are making a lot of assumptions about those judges OP. How do you know they were being unfair?

Don't you consider modifying the engine a mod?

Having said all that, you do have a nice ride.

[CamaroSkooter]

It all depends on your definition of modified.

And obviously, your definition of modified is different from the car club shows where you didn't win anything.

In all honesty, I've never understood the reasoning for the one-size-fits-all modified class. Because, as you've pointed out, it's not one size and it doesn't fit all.

Car guys will almost always consider power modifiers more impressive modifications than audio/visual modifications simply because of the amount of "engineering" and/or fabrication required.

The car show that the SACC puts on each year has 10 different categories to judge each vehicle by, separating out the interior from the engine from the trunk from the wheels, etc., etc.

But I've always thought it funny when a car show judge takes a look at a stock interior on a newer vehicle and gives the interior a 10 out of 10 rating. That's probably the source of most of your frustrations.

If I were to host a car show, I would make it absolutely clear to the judges that giving someone in the modified class a 10 in the interior category for a stock interior should be absolutely frowned upon. And on the flip side of that, giving someone with just an engine dress-up kit a 10 in the engine category would also be frowned upon.

But regardless, if you see major favoritism going on at a car show you've entered, the best thing you can do is stop going to that particular event. That kind of stuff will kill an event faster than anything else, because no one will want to come back except their buddies.

[MikeSVX]

It depends on the club. I like the way the corvette club in Delaware runs their Corvette Show. I won second place, non-corvette with a slightly modified '94 Subaru SVX. The big difference with them is that all club members get a vote, and they are not allowed to enter for prises. They show their cars, but are not entered in the competition.

[Peter]

I have entered many car shows that have everything from import cars to muscle cars, Magic Dragon is one of Missouri biggest car show they have around 1000 cars at this show and last year I took 6 trophies from this show.

But it doesn't matter about what shows I am won.

What I am posting has nothing to do with me and just my car. Just like some other have posted, unless you define what consists of modified I would think the car as a whole for modifications, engine is just 1 small part of it, there is many other aspects that should go into a modified class. I know that my weakest part of my car is my engine, and my interior is my biggest part.
This also goes back to why not show the score sheet so people know what they are getting judged on, to know what they are looking for at a show. If I would of seen the score sheet and it has 50% of the points in motor I would of known that the show is not one that is geared for me.

[Peter]

EFI I dont know why you keep saying rice conventions not a single one of my shows has had a civic or any form of an import car in it, the shows that I have gone into have more classic and older cars in it then anything. I know when I go to a car show I wont get many points for my exterior because it is a wrap. I works in the automotive industry and the car is my personal daily driver, it gets alot of attention for my job that is what it is for. I could care less if everyone likes it I know alot of people dont.

I want to know why
1. cant you see the score sheet before the show and alot of times after the show.
2. why do they not be specific about shows,
ie: stock class, has to maintain stock appearance with less then 3 modifications to any part of the car.
modified class: 25% motor 25% interior 25% exterior 25% under carriage - modified class should have 3 or more major modifications to any part of the vehicle
3. should judges judge on what the score sheet says not on there personal opinion. unless you add a part on the sheet that says personal preference. Quality and theme of the vehicle and mods should get points even if the judge does not personally like the car.

[strych9]

Originally Posted by Peter

I want to know why
1. cant you see the score sheet before the show and alot of times after the show.
2. why do they not be specific about shows,
ie: stock class, has to maintain stock appearance with less then 3 modifications to any part of the car.

I'll venture a couple of guesses. Regarding the score sheet, if information was public ahead of time, anybody could tailor their display to match the criteria. And after? Judges would end up leaving 3 hours late because they would have to explain why Mr./Ms. Whiney didn't win the competition.

Most shows I've participated in DO specify the class parameters. I imagine the ones that don't maybe lack some experience?

I get your point. I recently won runner-up in a large show that I thought I had no business placing in. Maybe the judge's kid was big into Transformers. Who knows? Point is, judging consistency is very poor between shows. It is what it is.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

It all depends on your definition of modified.

And obviously, your definition of modified is different from the car club shows where you didn't win anything.

In all honesty, I've never understood the reasoning for the one-size-fits-all modified class. Because, as you've pointed out, it's not one size and it doesn't fit all.

Car guys will almost always consider power modifiers more impressive modifications than audio/visual modifications simply because of the amount of "engineering" and/or fabrication required.

The car show that the SACC puts on each year has 10 different categories to judge each vehicle by, separating out the interior from the engine from the trunk from the wheels, etc., etc.

But I've always thought it funny when a car show judge takes a look at a stock interior on a newer vehicle and gives the interior a 10 out of 10 rating. That's probably the source of most of your frustrations.

If I were to host a car show, I would make it absolutely clear to the judges that giving someone in the modified class a 10 in the interior category for a stock interior should be absolutely frowned upon. And on the flip side of that, giving someone with just an engine dress-up kit a 10 in the engine category would also be frowned upon.

But regardless, if you see major favoritism going on at a car show you've entered, the best thing you can do is stop going to that particular event. That kind of stuff will kill an event faster than anything else, because no one will want to come back except their buddies.

You hit the nail on the head with what I am trying to say.

[Peter]

Alot of people on here seem to see the point that there is either bad judges which no one can fix, lack of communication, can be fix, and poor score sheets. One thing on here that we can change. Why not have a thread that looks into showing more of what a good score sheet should be what should and should not be involved in. It would be a start to show people what to look for. Because you cant judge a stock car like a modified car and cant use the same score sheet to do the same.
I would be a base for members here to grow what there shows do any expand so people will enjoy the show. Plus who cares if people look at the sheet and display there car to get the most points, it might make some people realize on where they need to work on there car to make it better and grow.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by EFI

That's not true, I consider the beauty of all cars regardless of engine size.

Yours however with all that crap on it is not good looking and considered riceish. That's why you "won" all those trophies at rice conventions and got no attention at muscle car shows.

Even if all your modifications were done to the interior/exterior (without touching the engine) but looked decent, you would've had a chance in most shows. When your rice your shit out, you don't win at muscle car shows.



Unless there are hard set rules/scoring in the show, EVERY judge will be scoring cars based on opinion. Muscle car show judged don't care for audio crap, while import car show judges do.

Little harsh don't you think? Stop ASSuming. The car not looking good is YOUR opinion. Others may like it or appreciate it.

I've been to Magic Dragon...there are literally a thousand cars in this show each year and it is GEARHEAD show...not a ricer show.

Anyways....Peter I understand your frustrations, but I'd just shrug it off at this point. This is just the way car shows are always going to be...at least the ones without official ruling guides and what not

[rez333]

Originally Posted by Peter

Alot of people on here seem to see the point that there is either bad judges which no one can fix, lack of communication, can be fix, and poor score sheets. One thing on here that we can change. Why not have a thread that looks into showing more of what a good score sheet should be what should and should not be involved in. It would be a start to show people what to look for. Because you cant judge a stock car like a modified car and cant use the same score sheet to do the same.
I would be a base for members here to grow what there shows do any expand so people will enjoy the show. Plus who cares if people look at the sheet and display there car to get the most points, it might make some people realize on where they need to work on there car to make it better and grow.

I agree with your points above, but the reality is that car guys are among the most biased people I know, and just as research has shown that wine tasters are full of shite when they arbitrarily judge wines (tasters are heavily influenced by labels), car judges judge based on their biases. There simply isn't a governing body dictating any standards, nor any intent to create any.

Life is unfair, but despite that you've won so many awards anyway, which is more than most people.