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Old 03-23-2009, 04:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carfansince73 View Post
Safety is a big consideration in buying any car with me, and the fact that Ford still doesn't have curtain airbags to protect occupants' heads is a BIG oversight. I would never buy one because of that.
Im pretty sure the mustang got5 stars with the crash test.....
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Originally Posted by Chevyrocker View Post
Just noticed A LOT of mustang guys are now all over this site. Not that you guys aren't welcome or anything...

Is is just that the Mustang forums are boring or something?
I am a member on a ford forum, to be honest this place is just better haha, they arent a very helpful bunch for the mostpart.
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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
If you look around, most of the people posting, who just happen to be driving a Mustang at this point in time and not necessarily "Mustang" guys, have been around for a long time.

No, I skipped that part.
ya you went with the KB!
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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
That's not really possible given the 500 is supercharged from the factory and the SS is not. Those dang SC'd Fords are friggin' knarly...



I think the review with the cars that was there was pretty fair. I can see your point on the Track Pack though. However, if there were an upgrade for the SS I think it would've been a better comparison. As long as that package is on the option sheet for the 'Stang, I have no problems. I don't, however, think the SRT8 would be appropriate for this test though. Although the SS is every bit comparable to that car, I think it's in a different price range. I think the R/T is though, though I don't think that price is necessarily the end-all-be-all. One can equip that SS into SRT8 territory, so I just didn't really think it was a true apples-to-apples test, in that way. I don't know that I completely agree with the GT500 statements, but I'll admit I'm not too knowledgable in that car - I just know it's bad@$$.

JMVHO.



I think it'll be gone (probably not forgotten) once cars start showing up on dealership lots that don't have a similar condition.
Yes the GT500 is extremely bada$$ especially once you start looking at mods, I would like to actually see a comparisson between it and the SRT8. Who knows they might throw in the Camaro SS just to see, I wouldnt mind.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:39 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by hardestgainer View Post
Im pretty sure the mustang got5 stars with the crash test.....
Tell that to the rear seat passengers.

From the IIHS on a 2007 - 09 MY Mustang:

Quote:
Head protection:
Driver — The dummy's head was protected from being hit by any hard structures, including the intruding barrier, by a side airbag that deployed from the seat.

Rear passenger — The dummy's head was hit by the interior side trim and convertible boot (cover for the folded roof). These impacts did not produce high head injury measures, but the head protection is inadequate.
Not to mention it only got an acceptable rating for the front offset. I hope the Camaro aces all these tests, and with it being a ground up design after knowing what tests will be done, it had better.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:59 PM   #59
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As far as comparing a gt-500 to a ss thats pretty weak no matter if it comes off the ford assembly line or not. All that means is ford couldnt do it themselve and had some 3rd party do the work for them. .
The GT500 was developed in house by SVT. No 3rd party.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:01 PM   #60
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Looking forward to the V6 comparo. It's going to send Dodge and Ford back to the drawing board. When the public discovers they can get 304HP and 29MPG fpr about 25 Gs, Chevy's gonna sell a lot of 6s.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:11 PM   #61
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I for one really think the reviews should be of a stock Mustang GT and Camaro. The track pack changes the read end to 3.73. If the Camaro had a track pack option then it is a straight apples to apples comparison. I believe the track pack is a good add on for the Mustang folk, but trap speeds tell the story 111 miles an hour with good tires, and revised gearing will blow the Mustang away big time. I think when we see folks with the actual cars on the tracks, with good tires the real separation between the GT and Camaro will be evident. It was good planning of Ford to have that option for 2010, as to compete or give the appearance of more competition for the new Camaro.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by z06reznor View Post
I for one really think the reviews should be of a stock Mustang GT and Camaro. The track pack changes the read end to 3.73. If the Camaro had a track pack option then it is a straight apples to apples comparison. I believe the track pack is a good add on for the Mustang folk, but trap speeds tell the story 111 miles an hour with good tires, and revised gearing will blow the Mustang away big time. I think when we see folks with the actual cars on the tracks, with good tires the real separation between the GT and Camaro will be evident. It was good planning of Ford to have that option for 2010, as to compete or give the appearance of more competition for the new Camaro.
I gotta agree with you on that. Slap a set of drag radials on both cars and the margin of victory in the 1/4 mile becomes even larger for the SS over the GT.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:55 PM   #63
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Allow me to take a stab at what I feel is going to happen as it relates to performance numbers, track packs and vehicle perceptions/sales.

First and foremost, since this is a niche site dedicated to the Gen5 Camaro, most of the people who frequent this board have likely owned a Camaro in the past and, just as likely, were not content to leave it stock. Since that is the case, people on the board tend to look at things from different perspective than the general car buyer. This fact is significant, because you need to understand what I am about to say without bias or from a skewed perspective. (Yeah, I know, good luck with that, right?) In any case, here it is.

For those of us who modify our cars to obtain better performance from them, who offers a “track pack” option from the factory and who does not, really doesn’t matter. None of those people will be able to make and “apple-to-apples” comparison of the cars, because they will all have been modified to one degree to another. Do you think because GM does not offer it as a factory option that Camaro's won't be sporting upgraded suspensions (i.e. Pedders) and putting lower gears in their cars? It will simply come down to which car, on any given day/night puts down the better ET or lap time and that will be determined mostly by the amount of time and money spent on a given vehicle. This has been true since the first motor vehicles ever lined up in a contest of speed. You can argue all day about how much money it might take/may have taken, in both the original price of purchase and the price of modifications, to get your car to a particular level of performance, but in the end, it’s the results that matter. Anything else is just bragging rights and a bunch of words that keep message boards entertaining.

On the other hand, you will have the average buyer who will do their research, read all the reviews (or maybe not) and who goes down and talks to the dealer. As evidenced on this board and others, not every cars salesperson is going to tell the truth, or even know the facts, regarding the very car they are trying to sell. In fact, most will try to make whatever brand they are selling out to be the best, even if the numbers do not add up that way. They are trying to sell a car.

This person will then drive off in their new vehicle and, depending on what they were told/read, and perhaps what kind of car they have driven previously, they will fully expect that their new performance vehicle will be king of the road in their market segment. Of course, if the car fails to live up to their expectations (which is usually the norm in the case of a performance car) or is beaten in a contest of speed by what they thought of as/were told was an inferior competitor, the result is usually disappointment at the vehicle they selected or anger at the dealer for misrepresenting what they purchased. In reality, the perceived poor performance is not because the car could not perform, but because the driver could not maximize the potential of the car.

Let me use this example. There were a lot of people who went out and bought a GT500 who had never looked at a Mustang before, let alone have any time behind the wheel of a high horsepower, rwd ponycar. These same people probably read all the reviews on the GT500 by the magazines and just knew 12-second timeslips were on their way the first time they took the car to the drag strip. To their chagrin, what they ended up with was 13-second or worse times because they had no idea how to launch the car or minimize wheelspin. This was usually made worse when they were beat by their friends/neighbors relatively stock GTO. How could this happen? They paid good money for a car everyone said was the quickest, most powerful Mustang ever offered by Ford. Of course, those of us who know how things really work at the dragstrip or road course can provide the answer.

This same scenario is going to play out for the Gen5 Camaro just as it has for every other performance car that has ever been produced whether that be a GT500, a GTR or a SS Camaro. Some folk’s 426hp wonder will be laid to waste by someone else’s 315hp vehicle and some 500+hp vehicles will be left behind by a new Camaro.

Of course, it will only be the extreme’s of both examples that will end up on the message boards. Stock SS Camaro’s will be shown beating modified GT500’s and stock GT500’s will be shown getting beat by stock Camaro's.

Just wait and see.

Last edited by garagelogic; 03-23-2009 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:59 PM   #64
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EDMUNDS has the same testing too...............!!

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
"The Camaro will leave the other two choking on its tire smoke."

OUCH!!
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
Allow me to take a stab at what I feel is going to happen as it relates to performance numbers, track packs and vehicle perceptions/sales.

First and foremost, since this is a niche site dedicated to the Gen5 Camaro, most of the people who frequent this board have likely owned a Camaro in the past and, just as likely, were not content to leave it stock. Since that is the case, people on the board tend to look at things from different perspective than the general car buyer. This fact is significant, because you need to understand what I am about to say without bias or from a skewed perspective. (Yeah, I know, good luck with that, right?) In any case, here it is.

For those of us who modify our cars to obtain better performance from them, who offers a “track pack” option from the factory and who does not, really doesn’t matter. None of those people will be able to make and “apple-to-apples” comparison of the cars, because they will all have been modified to one degree to another. Do you think because GM does not offer it as a factory option that Camaro's won't be sporting upgraded suspensions (i.e. Pedders) and putting lower gears in their cars? It will simply come down to which car, on any given day/night puts down the better ET or lap time and that will be determined mostly by the amount of time and money spent on a given vehicle. This has been true since the first motor vehicles ever lined up in a contest of speed. You can argue all day about how much money it might take/may have taken, in both the original price of purchase and the price of modifications, to get your car to a particular level of performance, but in the end, it’s the results that matter. Anything else is just bragging rights and a bunch of words that keep message boards entertaining.

On the other hand, you will have the average buyer who will do their research, read all the reviews (or maybe not) and who goes down and talks to the dealer. As evidenced on this board and others, not every cars salesperson is going to tell the truth, or even know the facts, regarding the very car they are trying to sell. In fact, most will try to make whatever brand they are selling out to be the best, even if the numbers do not add up that way. They are trying to sell a car.

This person will then drive off in their new vehicle and, depending on what they were told/read, and perhaps what kind of car they have driven previously, they will fully expect that their new performance vehicle will be king of the road in their market segment. Of course, if the car fails to live up to their expectations (which is usually the norm in the case of a performance car) or is beaten in a contest of speed by what they thought of as/were told was an inferior competitor, the result is usually disappointment at the vehicle they selected or anger at the dealer for misrepresenting what they purchased. In reality, the perceived poor performance is not because the car could not perform, but because the driver could not maximize the potential of the car.

Let me use this example. There were a lot of people who went out and bought a GT500 who had never looked at a Mustang before, let alone have any time behind the wheel of a high horsepower, rwd ponycar. These same people probably read all the reviews on the GT500 by the magazines and just knew 12-second timeslips were on their way the first time they took the car to the drag strip. To their chagrin, what they ended up with was 13-second or worse times because they had no idea how to launch the car or minimize wheelspin. This was usually made worse when they were beat by their friends/neighbors relatively stock GTO. How could this happen? They paid good money for a car everyone said was the quickest, most powerful Mustang ever offered by Ford. Of course, those of us who know how things really work at the dragstrip or road course can provide the answer.

This same scenario is going to play out for the Gen5 Camaro just as it has for every other performance car that has ever been produced whether that be a GT500, a GTR or a SS Camaro. Some folk’s 426hp wonder will be laid to waste by someone else’s 315hp vehicle and some 500+hp vehicles will be left behind by a new Camaro.

Of course, it will only be the extreme’s of both examples that will end up on the message boards. Stock SS Camaro’s will be shown beating modified GT500’s and stock GT500’s will be shown getting beat by stock Mustang GT’s.

Just wait and see.
QFT....Very good points. Your true, once the cars get mods and hit the track, the "cats out of the bag" in terms of comparison. I guess I would just really like to see the reviews just have the two cars matched up as they come standard. Or, have the Camaro with the same upgrades as the track pack (I know it won't happen mind you) The available upgrades on the SS seem to only be appearance/cosmetic - the cheapest SS has the same brakes and engine. One of the biggest selling points for the Mustang is the price, the track pack does add on to GT price a bit. In terms of "numbers" and reviews, the appearance of the Mustang being closer in performance than it really is seems to be the result. Like I said, I think Ford was smart in this respect, and allows them to take a little of the sting away from facing a new more powerful competitor until their next iteration of the stang. Competition is healthy regardless, lots of choices now for the consumer!
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:15 PM   #66
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Good read. I'm surpised with the raving about the 'Stang. I guess the solid rear axle isn't dead...
The Ford guys do know what they are doing with the suspension setup in that car (I think it was the track pack setup).. it is a bit lighter as well which always helps ....

I look forward to seeing what some aftermarket suspension and tire setups can do for the camaro ..

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Old 03-23-2009, 06:23 PM   #67
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maybe next they can compare a stock ss and gt to the challanger drag pack for 1/4 mile times?
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:54 PM   #68
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I think Gm should offer Pedders suspension packages on the options list.
Pedders Track 2 Xetreme look real tempting. and maybe 275 40r tires at all four corners.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:33 PM   #69
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Just noticed A LOT of mustang guys are now all over this site. Not that you guys aren't welcome or anything...

Is is just that the Mustang forums are boring or something?

Anyhow, I'm really glad the reviews are all in our favor (everyone knew they would be). I also have a storng feeling that the Camaro will be puttin gup better numbers once it is broken in. The Corvettes are the same way. Put a couple thousand miles on it and it will be a different car.

As far as the competition goes...I agree that they are all great cars. It's awesome that we're even reading articles like this in this day and age.
To be truthful, the Mustang forums are a bit boring now. When the '05 model was coming out, it was an exciting time with everyone anticipating their ordered cars -- just like it is here on these forums now...

But, another reason Mustang guys are all over this thread is that there was also a Mustang in the comparison! Duh. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more Dodge guys here too.

I can't speak for Mustang guys because I don't really consider myself one. I had Z28s long before I thought I would ever own Mustangs, and at this point in my life, I just want a RWD V8 stick car that handles and scoots. I'd be happy with any of the three to be honest. And if I read the review right, each car does have its own merits.

I'm glad the Camaro won because I have been obsessed with the car since it was announced as a reality. I'm surprised it wasn't more of a landslide, decisive victory, but a win is a win, so give GM their due. It looks like they've delivered the goods.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:42 PM   #70
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