2012 ZL1 vs. 2012 Boss 302

[KMPrenger]

While the new Camaro ZL1 has improved suspension and a lot more power, we don't think it stands a chance against this Boss on a racetrack. But we look forward to finding out.

Have to say, I think the above comment by MT at the end of the article was plainly a dumb thing to say. They should know the ZL1 was not designed to go up directly against the Boss, but instead the GT500. I'm confident the ZL1 will best the 2011 GT500 in just about all performance areas (who knows what the 2012 version will bring....too bad by the time the ZL1 is out, the 2012 will be just around the corner).

But when a widely read magazine like MT says crap like that, then people immediately begin to compare the two, like they are meant as direct competitors. Heck, all you have to do is read the comments section to see that.

IF GM were to release the SSX model or a Z28 like the SSX that would be the Boss competitor, not the ZL1.

[28.]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Is there any concrete info out there regarding the future of the GT500?

I looked but couldn't find ANYTHING. Just a bunch of e-thug speculation.

I hate to say it but as soon as the ecoboost program began, the 5.4L was on borrowed time. It's inevitable.. Ford has already said over 90 something percent of their future line-up WILL BE ecoboosted and the 5.4L is just not up to par for that.. As far as the GT500, I have yet to hear anything about Ford/Shelby renewing their contract .. To be honest with you If I was a betting man, I would bet no on the GT500 coming back for more than 1 more year.. I remember when I first read about the 5.0L when news got out that it was DI ready and I always wondered why they would go that extra mile and not use it.. Well I'm thinking the next gen Cobra is the reason.. TT DI 5.0L.. Unless they go NA with a 4V 6.2L.
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...ine/index.html

In Ford's Words
Those at Ford intimately familiar with the 6.2 emphasized several characteristics of the all-new V-8:
• Designed as a rugged workhorse specifically for truck applications.
• Excellent port-flow characteristics, especially at higher lifts, which lends itself to lots of tuning potential, as evidenced in the drag racing experimental engine and the Baja 1000 Raptor R race truck.
• With 115mm bore centers, the engine has lots of potential for increased displacement.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by 28.

That my friend will never happen I guarantee you that.. Hell the 5.0L GT would go out even before the V6 does(if it ever got to that). Dude the V6 and GT are their bread and butter... Trust me. that is a negatory..

Ok, I will trust you then...

Edit: I'm not saying the GT will be no more, in order to produce more vehicles using just one shift, the units would have to come from somewhere.. The V6, GT or the GT500's... Ford will look to slow down production as sales will surely continue to fall from now to the end of the S197...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Have to say, I think the above comment by MT at the end of the article was plainly a dumb thing to say. They should know the ZL1 was not designed to go up directly against the Boss, but instead the GT500. I'm confident the ZL1 will best the 2011 GT500 in just about all performance areas (who knows what the 2012 version will bring....too bad by the time the ZL1 is out, the 2012 will be just around the corner).

But when a widely read magazine like MT says crap like that, then people immediately begin to compare the two, like they are meant as direct competitors. Heck, all you have to do is read the comments section to see that.

IF GM were to release the SSX model or a Z28 like the SSX that would be the Boss competitor, not the ZL1.

If I were Ford, and I'm not, I would possibly be putting my competitor into a sticky situation. The ZL1 was benchmarked on the 2010 GT500 and the ZL1 no doubt was built to handle it. Small improvements were made on the 2011, enough to make it neck and neck with the CTS-V. The ZL1 is now prepared to storm the market most likely above the GT500 MSRP. If Ford were to offer the Boss for almost $20,000 dollars less than the ZL1 and drop the GT500 completely off the list. It would have made GM's last two years of benchmarking for nothing. All the technology that drives the MSRP up on the ZL1 could have the Boss, with screw driver adjustable shocks, a solid rear axle, naturally aspirated and 255/285'd coming very close if not better. Ford would retain the market... Its ironic that the Boss was originally the model Ford chose to go with instead of Shelby's offerings in 1969 that ultimately ended the relationship...

[truth411]

Originally Posted by sik68

It's very impressive that it ran a 1:40.x around Laguna Seca which is a couple ticks faster than where the 2006 z06 came in. The Mustang MUST be good, but its 500 lbs heaver than the z06, higher CG, and a lot less HP. I don't think these times are an apples to apples comparison.

I think the time similarities come down to better tires and an amazing driver in the Mustang. Anytime a mfr. flies in a driver, you know it's going to be a fast time. Not trying to take anything away from the Mustang and I seriously want one, I'm just realistic in that I don't expect to go to my local track days and seeing Boss's keeping pace with z06's in the actual track day environment.Once the comparisons come out, we will know better how good it actually is. I hope I eat crow and this car is actually as fast as the 1:40 time indicates.

[28.]

Originally Posted by thePill

Ok, I will trust you then...

Edit: I'm not saying the GT will be no more, in order to produce more vehicles using just one shift, the units would have to come from somewhere.. The V6, GT or the GT500's... Ford will look to slow down production as sales will surely continue to fall from now to the end of the S197...

I know what you're saying, but the V6 is the sole reason the Mustang has continued it's production run until now w/o a hiccup. Not the specialty vehicles.. They're good for advertisement and hype, but as far as sales go, they get most of their money from the high production numbers V6 cars and GTs, not the limited numbers cars like the GT500 or Cobras..

[DarkneSS]

Good, the better Ford cars get the better Chevys will. Now Dodge on the other hand...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Is there any concrete info out there regarding the future of the GT500?

I looked but couldn't find ANYTHING. Just a bunch of e-thug speculation.

None, not even a whisper... It's hard to get anything from Ford. There is a guy on SVTP that claims he's in the know that there will be a 2013 GT500 but I think he's a dealer.

[macwest]

Not to side track but latest motor trend did a laguna seca run on a Corvettte, Gt500 and a Nissan GTR the nissan smoked them all 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. ZL1 or Boss will have a hard time with it.

[28.]

Originally Posted by thePill

Ok, I will trust you then...

Edit: I'm not saying the GT will be no more, in order to produce more vehicles using just one shift, the units would have to come from somewhere.. The V6, GT or the GT500's... Ford will look to slow down production as sales will surely continue to fall from now to the end of the S197...

This makes no sense.. you're still pretty much saying the same thing that they will limit production on the V6s and Gts to make specialty models.. At least that's how i'm reading it.. And as far as nearing the end of a production run, what's different from the S197 run that was different from the previous lines like the Fox and Sn95s? They will always produce specialty models, but not at the cost of the models making them money.. It's always been that way.. Not just with Ford, but same thing with GM.

[KarFan]

Depends on if there is a same day, same driver and same track kind of comparison kind of like the Lightning lap. The BOSS is better suited for road racing and on shorter tighter tracks I see it walking away from CTS-V, ZL1 and GT500. Longer tracks like the Nurburgring would probably favor the bigger HP machines CTS-V, ZL1 and GT500.

[28.]

Originally Posted by macwest

Not to side track but latest motor trend did a laguna seca run on a Corvettte, Gt500 and a Nissan GTR the nissan smoked them all 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. ZL1 or Boss will have a hard time with it.

Nothing really surprising about that considering the GTR is an AWD vehicle..

[thePill]

Originally Posted by 28.

This makes no sense.. you're still pretty much saying the same thing that they will limit production on the V6s and Gts to make specialty models.. At least that's how i'm reading it.. And as far as nearing the end of a production run, what's different from the S197 run that was different from the previous lines like the Fox and Sn95s? They will always produce specialty models, but not at the cost of the models making them money.. It's always been that way.. Not just with Ford, but same thing with GM.

Overproduction at this point would be bad for profits, 4000 Boss's will sell for sure, The lower demand for the V6 and GT in general gives Ford production room to experiment. Last year 73k Mustangs sold out of 78k, this year produce 78k Mustangs and make 4000 of them Boss 302's. Everyone at the plant is still working/no lay offs and still meet the demand for GT's and V6's without cannibalizing their sales.

[Black5thgen]

I'd really like to see what numbers the SSX puts down seeing as it would be pretty much a direct competitor to the Boss LS. It would interesting to compare the two.