Automatic faster than the manual???

[RCowan]

I'd love to see the Torque Converter selection. It surely won't be a high stall, but maybe they've at least been able to approve efficiency and decrease its weight. That 50lb 4th gen converter was a dog.

http://www.media.gm.com/us/powertrai...8_6L80_MYC.doc

"There are two torque converter sizes, 258mm and 300mm. The 258mm applications use a twin-plate torque converter lockup clutch, while the 300mm applications use a single-plate torque converter lock-up clutch. Both types of clutches make use of GM’s proprietary electronic controlled capacity clutch (ECCC) technology, which uses a small, regulated amount of slip to dampen out engine pulses. This creates a smoother running drivetrain, especially during shift events."

[Xanthos]

Ok, so I used a car performance calculator to come up with some numbers. I know its not 100 percent accurate, but it seems pretty close to what I would have expected. The biggest factor to the times is the shift time - not sure how fast the auto shifts, and each driver will shift in a different amount of time using the manual. But - heres what I came up with. I only had time to do the V6, since its the only real dyno chart we have. I know the numbers are a bit off, since its 304 horsepower, not 300, but I used the same chart for both.

Using this dyno chart:


I came up with this speed vs. time graph for the manual. The program refuses to calculate anything before 20 mph, since there are too many factors that affect a launch. I extrapolated to get 0-60 times.


Using this chart, the 0-60 for the manual would be approximately 5.65 seconds. from 20-30 takes .70 second, then extrapolate that down to 0 at that same rate and get 5.65 seconds.


And then, using this chart, I get 5.75 seconds for the auto. It takes .75 seconds to go from 20 to 30, so extrapolating down to 0 adds 1.5 to the 4.25 from 20-60, for a total of 5.75 seconds.

Now, all of these numbers assume that the driver of the manual can shift at the exact same rate as the automatic tranny shifts. A slower shifter in the manual would take longer, and a faster shifter would be able to get even faster. This is also assuming a perfect launch with both transmissions, and no launch or traction control enabled. Its a lot of hypothetic math, but it does bring hope that the real world numbers will turn out a bit in the favor of the manual.
- Xanthos

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

Ok, so I used a car performance calculator to come up with some numbers. I know its not 100 percent accurate, but it seems pretty close to what I would have expected. The biggest factor to the times is the shift time - not sure how fast the auto shifts, and each driver will shift in a different amount of time using the manual. But - heres what I came up with. I only had time to do the V6, since its the only real dyno chart we have. I know the numbers are a bit off, since its 304 horsepower, not 300, but I used the same chart for both.

Using this dyno chart:


I came up with this speed vs. time graph for the manual. The program refuses to calculate anything before 20 mph, since there are too many factors that affect a launch. I extrapolated to get 0-60 times.


Using this chart, the 0-60 for the manual would be approximately 5.65 seconds. from 20-30 takes .70 second, then extrapolate that down to 0 at that same rate and get 5.65 seconds.


And then, using this chart, I get 5.75 seconds for the auto. It takes .75 seconds to go from 20 to 30, so extrapolating down to 0 adds 1.5 to the 4.25 from 20-60, for a total of 5.75 seconds.

Now, all of these numbers assume that the driver of the manual can shift at the exact same rate as the automatic tranny shifts. A slower shifter in the manual would take longer, and a faster shifter would be able to get even faster. This is also assuming a perfect launch with both transmissions, and no launch or traction control enabled. Its a lot of hypothetic math, but it does bring hope that the real world numbers will turn out a bit in the favor of the manual.
- Xanthos

That is some impressive chart work. Gallup could use you to analyze polls.

[Xanthos]

Gallup? Am I missing something?
- Xanthos

P.S. - OH! Nevermind. The guys who do exit polls and whatnot.

[Congoman775]

how can the manual be THAT much slower than the auto though??

4.6 - 4.9... that race wouldnt even be close...

[Xanthos]

That I can't explain at the moment - at least not until I see the dyno charts for the V8's and can do an in depth comparison. I personally think its because first and second gears are steeper. 4.07 vs 3.01 and 2.37 vs 2.07. That would account for the much closer 1/4 mile times (13.4 for the manual, 13.3 for the auto).
- Xanthos

[The_Beast_]

iF the paddles arent attached to the collom thats a huge disappointment. like epic. that push and pull thing ruins the F1 style. So I hope we still get the slide shifter.

[pinkcamaro10]

Originally Posted by The_Beast_

iF the paddles arent attached to the collom thats a huge disappointment. like epic. that push and pull thing ruins the F1 style. So I hope we still get the slide shifter.

in the Q&A they said it was behind the steering wheel..... so not too sure.

EDIT:found it

DougHoulihan: The V6 and V8 automatics have paddle-shifters on the back side of the steering wheel to allow the customer complete control of their shift points.

[Congoman775]

I guess ill have to hold off on a decision till i test drive both...

[GTAHVIT]

I think the reason it was faster was due to the shift points. I think the optimization they are talking about means they optimized them for the 1/4. Meaning they are different from the stock shift points giving the auto an advantage. Also, these are in no way official numbers. I'm expecting the official numbers to be much closer.

[The_Beast_]

Originally Posted by pinkcamaro10

in the Q&A they said it was behind the steering wheel..... so not too sure.

EDIT:found it

DougHoulihan: The V6 and V8 automatics have paddle-shifters on the back side of the steering wheel to allow the customer complete control of their shift points.

does it mean its F1 style with one on each side or is it that one where yu have to push and pull on one and only one.
sry the thought of that one is a little hard to bare

[pinkcamaro10]

i sure hope it has 2! one on each side. and i hope that you pull them..

i guess we will find out eventually, im anxious to know now.

[The_Beast_]

Originally Posted by pinkcamaro10

i sure hope it has 2! one on each side. and i hope that you pull them..

i guess we will find out eventually, im anxious to know now.

(sry I just never got to use that smilie and i wasnt going to let this opportunity pass me by.)

[Muscle Master]

Hey wait a second, 4.9,.............Isn't that the challenger time with 5-speed autostick, what gives