How To Avoid a Ticket

[upflying]

Originally Posted by 2012-1822

I cannot speak for where you are at, but being that is a broad statement, I find it to be mostly incorrect. In the city I live in, aside from University police, Sheriff's Deputies, and State Troopers, the city police are divided into Traffic and Patrol officers, as well as other divisions such as narcotics and what not but I'm talking about the uniformed black and white driving types.

The vast majority are considered patrol officers. Part of their duties are to write tickets and monitor traffic situations in addition to taking any calls such as domestic violence, robbery, cat up tree and all that. Traffic officers operate on a quota of tickets. It's 50 per month. That includes warnings. They also respond to wrecks first, and only if they are busy will the wreck get kicked to a patrol officer. Either type of officer can respond to a murder, shooting, robbery, or fight just as either type of officer can and will write tickets and respond to wrecks.

I'll rephrase it. Motor cops are 90% traffic cops and 10% crime cops.
Patrol cops are 90% crime cops and 10% traffic cops.
Evaluations of productivity are based on the number of tickets motor cops write and the number of reports and arrests patrol cops generate. Where I'm from patrol cops have ticket books with cobwebs on them. For the most part, patrol cops go from call to call, no time to write tickets.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Maxspeed

I Mass I have asked many officers this question and they have all answered "don't tell me". In Mass it is not required legally to inform them. Is it in TX?

They will find out if you have a Class A when they run your driver's license. Not a requirement, but it is a courtesy

[Overflow]

Very interesting thread.

[SILVERHAWK]

Originally Posted by Maxspeed

If I am legally carrying a concealed firearm, do I volunteer this info or wait until I have been asked?

Can't say if its required that you divulge that info in every state, but I would like know right away that there is a firearm in the situation....
plus that way there are no surprises if by chance it somehow becomes visible during the encounter....like reaching for your wallet and it gets uncovered in its holster
easier to explain its existence when the officer isn't pointing a gun at you and yelling to stay still or he will shoot you because he sees a firearm....just my opinion

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Maxspeed

If I am legally carrying a concealed firearm, do I volunteer this info or wait until I have been asked?

Depends on the state. Some states say it's not the officers business to know so you don't have to tell them, some say you have to tell them if it's within reach. When dealing with firearms always consult your state and local laws.

[CamaroSkooter]

In TX you are not required to have a concealed handgun license to have a concealed handgun in your vehicle.

I keep my handgun in my center console, my driver's license in my wallet, and my proof of insurance in the glove box. Quite frankly, since none are in the same place, the officer doesn't need to know about the firearm in my situation since there's no way he would ever see it during the stop unless he searched my vehicle. And that's not happening considering I'm clean as a whistle.

[FenwickHockey65]

I think the practice of informing the officer of a firearm, whether required to or not, is more of a courtesy thing than anything else. I've heard stories of officers letting people off on violations simply as a thank you for doing so.

[Maxspeed]

I agree that it's a courtesy to inform the officer. I make it a point to ask each officer I ever get a chance to speak to and surprisingly a vast majority say do not tell them if you are carrying

[CamaroDreams07]

I like how you capitalize Him when referring to the cop. That's usually reserved for Godly references

[SSteven]

Originally Posted by Maxspeed

I Mass I have asked many officers this question and they have all answered "don't tell me". In Mass it is not required legally to inform them. Is it in TX?

Not required but they'll be pissed when their system shows you have one and didn't tell them. Good thing about a CHL here is you have to be squeaky clean to get one. Most officers appreciate that

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by SSteven

Not required but they'll be pissed when their system shows you have one and didn't tell them. Good thing about a CHL here is you have to be squeaky clean to get one. Most officers appreciate that

A CHL is not required in Texas to carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle.

Let me repeat that:

A CHL is not required in Texas to carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle.

So when he runs my plates, name, DL #, etc. the system is not going to tell him squat about whether I have a gun in the car or not.

So, if my firearm is concealed, and in no way near the locations where I will have to be fishing around for whatever paperwork he needs to see, then telling him I have a gun will only lead to him being even more on edge.

And let's look at the opposite side of your statement. Just because someone has a CHL doesn't necessarily mean they will always have a gun in their car. So, what, you're saying if you have a CHL but don't have a gun in the car, and he runs your info and sees you have a CHL, then he has the right to come back to your window pissed off at you?

The fact is, the officers do not have any business knowing whether or not you have a gun in the car unless there is a chance that they may see the firearm during the course of the stop. And quite frankly, if there's a chance they'll see the gun during the course of the stop, you need to seriously reconsider where you keep your firearm(s). In Texas, your handguns are supposed to be concealed when you're in your car, whether you have a CHL or not.

So, sure, if you keep both your handgun and your proof of insurance in the glove box, then you'll need to let him know ahead of time before you reach for that glove box and freak him out.

But honestly, if the purpose of having a concealed handgun is for self-defense, then how practical is it to keep your sidearm in the glove box?! That's well beyond "arms reach" and does you absolutely no good if and when you truly need it.

[Spartan01]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

In TX you are not required to have a concealed handgun license to have a concealed handgun in your vehicle.

I keep my handgun in my center console, my driver's license in my wallet, and my proof of insurance in the glove box. Quite frankly, since none are in the same place, the officer doesn't need to know about the firearm in my situation since there's no way he would ever see it during the stop unless he searched my vehicle. And that's not happening considering I'm clean as a whistle.

Actually,
the cop CAN search your car. He may legally search around your immediate seating area. Essentially any area you can reach while sitting in the car.
Now, The cop must have a legal reason to do so. However, he can always say something to the effect of "The subject in question was making furtive movements under/around his seating area while I approached the vehicle." or "Due to my training as a law enforcement officer, the subject was acting in a suspicious and highly agitated manner leading me to believe that he was in possesion of weapons and or contraband."
Again both of these statements, or statements to the same effect are highly subjective, and very difficult to disprove.

Now, in your state of Texas, it May be legal to carry as you do, and it May be legal to not inform the officer, THAT IS YOUR RIGHT. However, AND STRICTLY SPEAKING ONLY OF MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND BELIEFS- that is RUDE, and IF I catch you, I am lighting you up. For the intitial infractions as well as the 6 or so other infractions I can always find. Most of which are very silly and petty, but if you are rude...
Also, from my own personal experiences and beliefs, if you let me know right up front that you are cool dude, and have a cool attitude, or you are an insanely hot chick, I am MOST LIKELY to let you go with a warning.
9 times out of 10 (excluding Parking, Accidents, Striking a Pedestrian, or Illegal Right on Red, all of which in my jurisdiction REQUIRED a ticket, i.e. NO discretion on the officer's part) attitude was everything.

Also understand that I am a HUGE supporter of 2nd ammendment rights. I am a lifetime NRA member, etc. so I am not at all anti gun.
I also worked in an extremely violent district with major gun crime issues.

[Spartan01]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I think the practice of informing the officer of a firearm, whether required to or not, is more of a courtesy thing than anything else. I've heard stories of officers letting people off on violations simply as a thank you for doing so.

EXACTLY my point.
some jurisdictions informing the officer is the law, sometimes not a requirement.
BUT, PERSONALLY, if you are a LEGAL CCW holder, and are carrying, I already know you have been fingerprinted, trained atleast to some standard etc. If you let me know up front, and you have no outstanding warrants etc, I will almost always let you go.

On the other hand,
people often forget that many cops are trained to spot what is know as "printing,' i.e. giving away the fact that you are carrying a weapon (legal or illegal.) So alot of times, we will notice the weapon. If you didnt tell me upfront, the list of petty things I can hit you with is endless.

This ranges from "Objects hanging from mirror,' Tint violations, ANY saftey inspection issue (such as horn not functioning or burned out tail light, tire tread depth, etc. Many of which require you to personally go to an inspection station and prove the item is working which is a major pain in the a$$.)
I could even "theoretically" hit you with one of these violations, and your tail light was fine, but you would still have to prove that it was working, and GOOD LUCK proving that the officer lied- Generally, at most he would say "It was out when I pulled them over, must be a short." and get a walk. Remember, it is not your word vs. the cops word, it is your word vs. the STATE's word, and the state never, ever likes to admit it is worng or can be flawed.
Another favorite of mine was to hit you with "Failure to Turn Wheels To The Right during a Traffic Stop," This was a very little known law, that most cops never enforce, but if you pi$$ed me off..

Anyway, my whole long winded point, was that generally attitude is everything and that officers get yelled at, cussed at, spit on, etc. all day long. A little courtesy goes a LONG way.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Spartan01

Actually,
the cop CAN search your car. He may legally search around your immediate seating area. Essentially any area you can reach while sitting in the car.
Now, The cop must have a legal reason to do so. However, he can always say something to the effect of "The subject in question was making furtive movements under/around his seating area while I approached the vehicle." or "Due to my training as a law enforcement officer, the subject was acting in a suspicious and highly agitated manner leading me to believe that he was in possesion of weapons and or contraband."
Again both of these statements, or statements to the same effect are highly subjective, and very difficult to disprove.

Now, in your state of Texas, it May be legal to carry as you do, and it May be legal to not inform the officer, THAT IS YOUR RIGHT. However, AND STRICTLY SPEAKING ONLY OF MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND BELIEFS- that is RUDE, and IF I catch you, I am lighting you up. For the intitial infractions as well as the 6 or so other infractions I can always find. Most of which are very silly and petty, but if you are rude...
Also, from my own personal experiences and beliefs, if you let me know right up front that you are cool dude, and have a cool attitude, or you are an insanely hot chick, I am MOST LIKELY to let you go with a warning.
9 times out of 10 (excluding Parking, Accidents, Striking a Pedestrian, or Illegal Right on Red, all of which in my jurisdiction REQUIRED a ticket, i.e. NO discretion on the officer's part) attitude was everything.

Also understand that I am a HUGE supporter of 2nd ammendment rights. I am a lifetime NRA member, etc. so I am not at all anti gun.
I also worked in an extremely violent district with major gun crime issues.

Plain sight and warrantless search are two very different things. And yes, if an officer decides to tell me he has probable cause to search my vehicle, then I will inform him what he will find.

That being said, you have to be acting 10 shades of suspicious for an officer to get to the point of a warrantless search.

If I follow all of the above procedures outlined in the OP, and act courteous to the officer, and do all of that EXCEPT tell him I have a gun in the car, then the officer has absolutely zero probable cause to perform a warrantless search of my vehicle. Period.

Originally Posted by Spartan01

EXACTLY my point.
some jurisdictions informing the officer is the law, sometimes not a requirement.
BUT, PERSONALLY, if you are a LEGAL CCW holder, and are carrying, I already know you have been fingerprinted, trained atleast to some standard etc. If you let me know up front, and you have no outstanding warrants etc, I will almost always let you go.

On the other hand,
people often forget that many cops are trained to spot what is know as "printing,' i.e. giving away the fact that you are carrying a weapon (legal or illegal.) So alot of times, we will notice the weapon. If you didnt tell me upfront, the list of petty things I can hit you with is endless.

As I understand it, "printing" is generally in reference to being able to notice where someone is concealing their firearm based on subtle bulges in their attire. That becomes a little more difficult when someone is seated inside a vehicle performing all of the OP's outlined behavioral patterns. It becomes impossible when the firearm the person has is completely concealed inside a center console.

Originally Posted by Spartan01

This ranges from "Objects hanging from mirror,' Tint violations, ANY saftey inspection issue (such as horn not functioning or burned out tail light, tire tread depth, etc. Many of which require you to personally go to an inspection station and prove the item is working which is a major pain in the a$$.)
I could even "theoretically" hit you with one of these violations, and your tail light was fine, but you would still have to prove that it was working, and GOOD LUCK proving that the officer lied- Generally, at most he would say "It was out when I pulled them over, must be a short." and get a walk. Remember, it is not your word vs. the cops word, it is your word vs. the STATE's word, and the state never, ever likes to admit it is worng or can be flawed.
Another favorite of mine was to hit you with "Failure to Turn Wheels To The Right during a Traffic Stop," This was a very little known law, that most cops never enforce, but if you pi$$ed me off..

Anyway, my whole long winded point, was that generally attitude is everything and that officers get yelled at, cussed at, spit on, etc. all day long. A little courtesy goes a LONG way.

Believe me, I absolutely understand that your job requires you to meet all sorts of people in many cases on the worst day of their lives. And for that reason alone, I don't feel it worth my time to give you any attitude other than calm and courteous. I wouldn't want someone intentionally berating me just for doing my job. Therefore, I have no intention of berating an officer just because he caught me red-handed going a few miles over the speed limit.

That being said, if I get caught going five over, that doesn't mean I need to bring up something that is completely unrelated to the stop at hand. In my opinion, if it is legal for me to have something in my car, then what use is it to bring it up? A firearm, without my hand on it, is just a hunk of metal. If I have a baseball bat, hammer or tire iron in the back seat, should I also inform the officer of those weapons as well, even though it's perfectly legal for me to own them and have them in my vehicle?

I fully understand that you think it's considered a courtesy to inform you that I have a firearm in my car, but isn't vocally proclaiming that you have a weapon considered a crime because you are effectively "brandishing" that fact openly?