Friction Modifier?

[krazzyk01]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Wonder no more ...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...D2sZ-eKnrVd_nA

Ya, I've looked at that information before posting the op.

I'm a little surprised at how much reaction there is to this question. The op was intended to pose a question about something I found a little strange but wanted to investigate. Now it seems to have started a fairly intense conversation. lol

So. Getting past the point of it's not required, and it's probably never been done before, does it have any merit?

Also, I'm only wondering about its merit in the Manual transmission in a 1LE/MM6. I think most of us know it's needed in our rear diffs if following the GM guidelines and not using an aftermarket oil with it already in there. Besides, I never asked about the rear axle.

My thoughts were why not? A manual box is just full of gears and syncros so reducing friction would be a good thing I would think. It's not like there are bands and clutches in there.

As far as Redline oil goes. I put it in my car about 8k ago and I plan to get rid of it this week. It's done nothing at all for the smoothness/shiftablility of the transmission which is why I put it in there in the first place. Given that I'm going to replace the oil again and the original question came up is why I asked it in the first place. I'll be sending that oil to Blackstone labs like I always to so if anyone is interested I'll post the data. The lab report which came back on the OEM oil that had about 28k on it showed it was in great shape. FYI

I've never been thrilled with the shifting on this car. I've listened to reviews on Head-To-Head/Motor Trend and such and they rant and rave about how great the shifter is. Maybe I expected too much from it to start with.

Aside from all that, the guy that recommended it, at one time, was the lead mechanic at my dealer for all of the high performance cars. He left the dealer and bought this shop a few years ago. I want to say he told me he runs the friction modifier in his ZL1 which is pushing some crazy HP to the wheels. I'll not name the shop since I don't think he's "crazy" for doing it. Out of the box thinking is what I do for a living basically so why would I fault him for doing it. He did a great job tuning my car so I give him kudos for it. I'll not see his shop defamed by people that are overly quick to judge.

What am I looking to gain from it? Aside from information it would be nice if it shifted a little smoother and if it helps it live a longer healthier life, all the better. I have no thoughts of ever selling this car so I'm taking care of it from square one.

Can anyone come up with a solid, fact based reason why this would be a bad idea?

[PapaKlutch]

Originally Posted by Redhotls1

Let's not start the confusion again. I don't have a tremec transmission so GONIF is correct that the (V6) AY6 tranny takes 75w-90. I've already been chastised for being on this 1le only thread so you can hold off on it. But my diff does take the same,only smaller quantity, as the 1le. 75w-90 with friction modifier. Which is GL5 approved and can also be used in the AY6 transmission. Just wanted to set it straight so folks understand the story.
Thanks.

Ahhh, got it...nevermind then.

[krazzyk01]

I wish I had found this before. It explains in a lot more detail of what's needed in a manual trans and why. Red Line's fluid hasn't really helped my car but their data base has helped me learn.

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf

[Camaro Dude]

Re Manuals trannies...

Contrary to some popular laymens beliefs, you do actually need some friction, in order for the syncros to properly engage. This was something many in the early VW and BMW days of the mid 80's discovered with grinding after only a few thousand miles on factory fills during hot runs and power shifts. The OEM factory fills surprisingly tended to be way too slippery for proper 100% engagement of the syncros, during fast power shifts.

Thankfully, the aftermarket provided solutions to the above case scenarios, that have now been tried and tested, and reported ad nauseaum.

-The OEM manual tranny fluids viscosity, must meet all geographical locations, from Anchorage to Miami.

If paragraph one is "too out there" in falls under some sort of Internet conspiracy realm of things for one, then please repeat paragraph número 3, until common sense settles in.

On these cars M6, ATF for 4 season, daily drivers, end of story.

As for what brand of ATF, choose your poison that works best for you.

For anything thicker than ATF, choose according to your application.

If your car sees race, driven only in summer, and a weekend warrior all in one, then you might want to start considering something a little bit thicker, than the dude who is worried about shifter stiffness driving out of their driveway on a cold Alaskan morning.

I myself, after vigorous experimentation with Sledge, have observed best results with 50%/50% mix of Redline MTL/ATF. But do note, mine never sees winter, albeit a daily driver in late spring/summer/fall.

[ron123]

Following is official from manufacturer for the Camaro SS:
TREMEC website clearly states that the TR6060 transmission REQUIRES ATF Dexron 3 as noted in excerpt from their website shown below; Synchronizers, gears, etc. depend on that spec fluid. If you contact the Chevy car dealer as indicated in the Owners Manual they will agree (I did call).

"TREMEC TR-6060™ Transmission
6-Speed RWD Manual Transmission
Type: Rear wheel drive, six-speed manual dual overdrive transmission
Maximum gross vehicle weight:* 2,400 kg (5,291 lb) *For reference only.
Case: Die-cast aluminum alloy
Center distance: 85 mm
Overall length: 813 mm
Clutch housing: Integrated
Synchronizer type: Double and triple cone; hybrid and sintered bronze friction material
Lubricant type: Dexron III ATF
Lubricant capacity (approximate): 3.45 (7.29 pt)
Transmission weight: Wet: 66.3 kg (146.2 lb)

The TREMEC TR-6060 six-speed manual transmission is found in high performance flagship vehicles. Along with the capability to stand up to some of the highest-output V-8 engines in the industry, the TR-6060 delivers great overall shift feel with short throws, and smooth gear synchronization. Design features of the TR-6060 include a combination of double-cone and triple-cone synchronizers on all gears. Anti-friction ball struts and fine-pitch splines provide reduced friction between components. A spring loaded anti-friction roller, in combination with broached forward and reverse detent grooves on the mainshaft provide precise control of shift detents and a positive shift feel. Gearsets Tailored to Enhance Performance Reduced fore and aft shift travel and narrow synchronizer hubs allows greater face width on all gears. The gears utilize a two piece design with machined clutch teeth for more precise gear engagement."
www.tremec.com/anexos/TREMEC_TR-6060.pdf
Ron

[USMUCL]

The OP's question reminded me of a similar, albeit invalid, experience that I had.

You guys remember when Slick 50 was at its prime? The idea was it allegedly bonded with engine parts and protected the engine during dry start-ups. It was advertised to last 50k miles, but they later came out with a very small "booster" bottle that you would put in at every oil change to keep the levels up (after using the big bottle originally).

Anyway, in 1995, I had a 80's MR2, manual trans. When I downshifted it from 4th to 3rd, it would grind. Obviously, a failing syncro. Well, on a whim, I added only the small "booster" bottle of Slick 50 to the trans oil. My friends made fun of me for adding an engine additive to my trans oil, but I gave it a shot anyway.

Guess what? IT COMPLETELY CURED THE GRIND. I was so incredulous, I actually drained the oil back out and refilled without the Slick 50. The grind immediately came back. I then put another bottle of the booster in, and the grind was gone.

My feeling was that the friction reduction was compensating for the bad syncro. I ended up trading the car about 9 months later for an unrelated reason, so I don't know if it would have held long term. I doubt it.

Not saying this is applicable to our 2010+ trans tech, but interesting nonetheless . . .

[krazzyk01]

Originally Posted by USMUCL

The OP's question reminded me of a similar, albeit invalid, experience that I had.

You guys remember when Slick 50 was at its prime? The idea was it allegedly bonded with engine parts and protected the engine during dry start-ups. It was advertised to last 50k miles, but they later came out with a very small "booster" bottle that you would put in at every oil change to keep the levels up (after using the big bottle originally).

Anyway, in 1995, I had a 80's MR2, manual trans. When I downshifted it from 4th to 3rd, it would grind. Obviously, a failing syncro. Well, on a whim, I added only the small "booster" bottle of Slick 50 to the trans oil. My friends made fun of me for adding an engine additive to my trans oil, but I gave it a shot anyway.

Guess what? IT COMPLETELY CURED THE GRIND. I was so incredulous, I actually drained the oil back out and refilled without the Slick 50. The grind immediately came back. I then put another bottle of the booster in, and the grind was gone.

My feeling was that the friction reduction was compensating for the bad syncro. I ended up trading the car about 9 months later for an unrelated reason, so I don't know if it would have held long term. I doubt it.

Not saying this is applicable to our 2010+ trans tech, but interesting nonetheless . . .

Okay, this is interesting.

I've read all of the post and there is a lot of good information in there.

What I'm not seeing and am still curious is, does anyone think putting the modifier in the trans will cause harm to the transmission? If it were put in and it shifts crappy it could be taken right back out. No big deal.

Just to be clear. I'm not doing this before the warranty is up. Information is the main point here.