Save money, Don't get a crate engine! ...

[gladiatoro]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp

WOW that's AWESOME now I am totally sold on a new SS but hmmm I wonder if they will still make the Legendary Z28 again , damn it's hard to decide if to wait for a car that may never see the light of day or pre order a SS now

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp

We have that on word of mouth alone. There aren't many stock drivetrains out there that can take 650whp. At the very least, I know you'll be needing to do clutch. You'll possibly stubs and I wouldn't do holeshots with that much power on stock half shafts.

The C6s like to snap driver's side output shafts on DRs, even around only 420whp. On the chance that the Camaro's drivetrain is that much stronger, I would't safely say beyond 500whp. Having put 750hp through a drivetrain and having used 750 hp are two different things. Drag racing is much harder, obviously, on stuff than street driving or road coursing. If engineers at GM flogged a car around Milford making 650hp at the wheels, there's nothing to say that on a sticky tire that car won't break everything from the flywheel back at the tree.


But this is all speculation, because nobody has gone and done it yet. In the first year, the folks on the board with access to more funds will be exploring the limits of stock components and we will, by their misfortune, learn a lot about where the weaknesses are. From there, the aftermarket will (eventually) design and produce what is needed. But until then, we can't safely say. I prefer to err on the side of caution though.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Steve

OK, Here I go stepping out on the ice again. I have seen what Nitrous Oxide does to a car as far as increasing its power, but what else besides the kit is needed for the motor? Do you think the stock LS3 will handle a gas kit?

while this belongs in a new thread, ill go ahead and give you some quick info.

the LS3 (along with any motor) will be able to take NO2 as long as the system is set up properly. that being said, a friend of mine has a nice little writeup on no2
http://www.z28.com/forum/showthread....=nitrous+oxide

Originally Posted by gladiatoro

WOW that's AWESOME now I am totally sold on a new SS but hmmm I wonder if they will still make the Legendary Z28 again , damn it's hard to decide if to wait for a car that may never see the light of day or pre order a SS now

order an SS now, then trade it in when the Z28 comes out.

[Steve]

Thanks CamaroSpike. I will read on.

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

while this belongs in a new thread, ill go ahead and give you some quick info.

the LS3 (along with any motor) will be able to take NO2 as long as the system is set up properly. that being said, a friend of mine has a nice little writeup on no2
http://www.z28.com/forum/showthread....=nitrous+oxide



order an SS now, then trade it in when the Z28 comes out.

[TLSTWIN]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp

Dang, I was going to try and get 751HP

BTW, one of the cars built to handle close to that kinda HP........Saleen S7.....

Saleen S7 V8 750HP 700 ft lbs torque 10.5@145.0 1/4 mile $580,000

http://www.saleen.com/saleen_s7_performance.htm

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS.


People just don't listen.

I've been listening. I'm actually looking forward to some instructional threads and dynos so that I can take good advice from members of the forum to make my Camaro more beastly.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by gladiatoro

A good cam and headers should be enough to get to 500hp me thinks , with a SUPERCHARGER you would be north of 600 hp depending on the unit the sky is the limit but I don't think the Camaros drive train can handle much more then 600 without being beefed up but I could be wrong I am no expert in this matter , the Shelby gt500 seems able to go over 700hp with stock drivetrain as some members here on this forum have rides like that

Yeah, but these motors are forged from the factory. LS3s have hypereutectic (I think I spelled that wrong...) pistons, powder metal rods, and cast iron crank. Although I know I've read and heard about many stock crank builds in that same HP range, those rods and pistsons aren't going to live long under those conditions that 500 engine can put up with. LS9s and LSAs have forged steel cranks and beefier rods and pistons with oil squirters for the pistons (in addition to a bunch of other little goodies) to support their numbers for years of trouble-free service. I'm just saying comparing the 5.4 in a 500 and our LS3 isn't too fair under these circumstances, IMVHO.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

We have that on word of mouth alone. There aren't many stock drivetrains out there that can take 650whp. At the very least, I know you'll be needing to do clutch. You'll possibly stubs and I wouldn't do holeshots with that much power on stock half shafts.

The C6s like to snap driver's side output shafts on DRs, even around only 420whp. On the chance that the Camaro's drivetrain is that much stronger, I would't safely say beyond 500whp. Having put 750hp through a drivetrain and having used 750 hp are two different things. Drag racing is much harder, obviously, on stuff than street driving or road coursing. If engineers at GM flogged a car around Milford making 650hp at the wheels, there's nothing to say that on a sticky tire that car won't break everything from the flywheel back at the tree.

But this is all speculation, because nobody has gone and done it yet. In the first year, the folks on the board with access to more funds will be exploring the limits of stock components and we will, by their misfortune, learn a lot about where the weaknesses are. From there, the aftermarket will (eventually) design and produce what is needed. But until then, we can't safely say. I prefer to err on the side of caution though.

I think I remember reading that an engineer said the rear end of Camaro was tested up to 600+ horsepower, and that's find and good on street tires, because it'll just blow 'em off, but like 'junkie said, when you start to hook, that changes things. M6 LS1 F-bodies break rear ends like it's their job when they start to hook up off the line, and I know of even a few stock-plus horse A4s breaking their rear ends too. Hopefully, the advances in GM's staggerred axles will correct the hop, and keep the car together. We'll find that out soon

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I've been listening. I'm actually looking forward to some instructional threads and dynos so that I can take good advice from members of the forum to make my Camaro more beastly.

[zebra]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Yeah, but these motors are forged from the factory. LS3s have hypereutectic (I think I spelled that wrong...) pistons, powder metal rods, and cast iron crank. Although I know I've read and heard about many stock crank builds in that same HP range, those rods and pistsons aren't going to live long under those conditions that 500 engine can put up with. LS9s and LSAs have forged steel cranks and beefier rods and pistons with oil squirters for the pistons (in addition to a bunch of other little goodies) to support their numbers for years of trouble-free service. I'm just saying comparing the 5.4 in a 500 and our LS3 isn't too fair under these circumstances, IMVHO.

if i end up doing any extensive modification (TT setup, methanol, etc) i will probably replace the internals with ones from an LSA/LS9 for those very reasons. hopefully the stock rear will hold, but only time (or one crazy launch) will tell.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I think I remember reading that an engineer said the rear end of Camaro was tested up to 600+ horsepower, and that's find and good on street tires, because it'll just blow 'em off, but like 'junkie said, when you start to hook, that changes things.

M6 LS1 F-bodies break rear ends like it's their job when they start to hook up off the line, and I know of even a few stock-plus horse A4s breaking their rear ends too. Hopefully, the advances in GM's staggerred axles will correct the hop, and keep the car together. We'll find that out soon

axle flex sucks on 10bolts.... trust me...lol

[99b4c]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

axle flex sucks on 10bolts.... trust me...lol

I hope the 5th gen rear has a ring gear around 9" in diameter,the 3rd and 4th gens had a weak 7.5" 10 bolt.

[Georgie]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

Plus, all these guys, I bet most of them are all pipe dreams anyways. All talk.

most of the internet is

[radz28]

Originally Posted by zebra

if i end up doing any extensive modification (TT setup, methanol, etc) i will probably replace the internals with ones from an LSA/LS9 for those very reasons. hopefully the stock rear will hold, but only time (or one crazy launch) will tell.

Me too. I've contemplated maybe just an LS9 shortblock, assuming one will be available. I like this because the head bolt holes are 12mm (if I'm not mistaken) instead of the standard 11mm on all other 6.2 block, including LSAs. Those titanium rods are going to push the price into the atmosphere though, even if there is a shortblock assembly available. I like the idea of the oil squirters too, which the LSA also has. Heck, maybe just get an LS9 block, stuff it with an LS9 crank, and go Lunati for the rest... It'd really be easier if GM just put that stuff in the car in the first place

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

axle flex sucks on 10bolts.... trust me...lol

Yeah, my brother's rear end broke while doing his burnout. He made it down the track, although when his car went by me, it was making some pretty awful noises (he was running nitrous). Good thing it didn't lock-up while we were racing...

Originally Posted by 99b4c

I hope the 5th gen rear has a ring gear around 9" in diameter,the 3rd and 4th gens had a weak 7.5" 10 bolt.

Even a nice 8.5" would be nice. Shoot; weren't 12-bolts 8.75"? I could swear I read somewhere we'd be right in that neighborhood with the new rear end. Hmm...

[o2camaross]

rad, i know the 10 bolts in the trucks are 8.6''. and the 14bolts are like 9.5''. we need to figure out what the g8's ring gear is and go off of that

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by 99b4c

I hope the 5th gen rear has a ring gear around 9" in diameter,the 3rd and 4th gens had a weak 7.5" 10 bolt.

the ring gear wasnt the problem. axle flex was the problem which then led to the gears being seperated under stress and causing them to run on each other on the edges of the gear where it is the weakest. then a chunk breaks off and jams up and boom....

Originally Posted by radz282003

Yeah, my brother's rear end broke while doing his burnout. He made it down the track, although when his car went by me, it was making some pretty awful noises (he was running nitrous). Good thing it didn't lock-up while we were racing...
Even a nice 8.5" would be nice. Shoot; weren't 12-bolts 8.75"? I could swear I read somewhere we'd be right in that neighborhood with the new rear end. Hmm...

8.5" rears arent bad, but the problem still lies in solid axle housings. if the axle tubes arent strong enough and if the main caps cant keep pressure on the rear, its going to break with enough power.


as for supporting the stock 10bolt for 3rd/4th gens you can do this
http://www.lpwracing.com/p_axletubebrace.asp

but you'll have to modify your PHB to clear.

or you can do this.
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486663

(my next project)