Updated - Twins almost here! - STS (Twin Turbo) Camaro SS

[97one]

[QUOTE=STS Guy;864027]

Originally Posted by 97one

Can't win them all. Thank you for looking and giving me feedback!

And what lag? May I ask the basis on that statement?

I have driven a car w/a turbo, so I know the feel of a lag.
I also know my supercharger was instant boost,it had no lag.
Even in your link it speaks about the turbo boost : don't come till the rpms get to well over 2k.
I never drove a rear turbo, but it would have to have more lag than a front mounted one.

[STS Guy]

[QUOTE=97one;864172]

Originally Posted by STS Guy

I have driven a car w/a turbo, so I know the feel of a lag.
I also know my supercharger was instant boost,it had no lag.
Even in your link it speaks about the turbo boost : don't come till the rpms get to well over 2k.
I never drove a rear turbo, but it would have to have more lag than a front mounted one.

There is zero reason for our systems to have 'more lag'. Amazingly after all these years that is still assumed. Do you have a gauge to see when your boost comes on with the SC?

You will be suprised to see that it comes on at very similiar RPMs. Here is a link directly from Kenne Bell. Look at the part where it states what RPM the SC boosts... 2000 RPM.
There is a plethora of information on that page. It talks about heat, RPMs, Boost....ect.


http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=18
Since you say the Kenne Bell has boost at 2000 RPM, does that mean I will be driving around in boost all the time?

No. Boost and power output depends on how far the throttle is open. The supercharger automatically compresses and boosts as much air as it needs to feed the engine. Full boost comes in when the throttle is wide open and does not depend totally on engine RPM as do centrifugals. For example, you can cruise down the freeway in low gear at 4000 rpm at part throttle and not see 1psi of boost - but floor the pedal and you get instant full boost (power).


And as far as a rear mount having more lag, Why would it?

[97one]

Originally Posted by STS Guy

There is zero reason for our systems to have 'more lag'. Amazingly after all these years that is still assumed. Do you have a gauge to see when your boost comes on with the SC?

You will be suprised to see that it comes on at very similiar RPMs. Here is a link directly from Kenne Bell. Look at the part where it states what RPM the SC boosts... 2000 RPM.
There is a plethora of information on that page. It talks about heat, RPMs, Boost....ect.


http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=18
[COLOR="Red"]Since you say the Kenne Bell has boost at 2000 RPM, does that mean I will be driving around in boost all the time?

Here's 2 quotes fr the thread...........
pqtiii ..Quote :
I installed a STS twin kit on my 07 Mustang last year. (( There definately isn't the instant torque, but from about 3500rpms)) on in each gear, it pulls hard. Don't really having anything to compare lag to, but it starts building boost around 2700 and tops out about 3500.

tbyrne..Quote:
Boost starts to come on in the UPPER 2000RPM range.

So maybe 2000RPM for the SC... & 2700RPM for the turbo.

All I know is I can feel the INSTANT boost in power w/ the Supercharger & not with the turbo.
That would be one main reason of many reasons that I would not buy ANY turbo not just STS's

And as far as a rear mount having more lag, Why would it?

Not to debate that ft./rear mount part, BUT any turbo has the lag.

[Jericho]

I think the diameter of the pipe would effect the 'lag' more than the distance from the source. But, were only talking of 10+ft? In truth the lag should feel exactly the same if not so close that it makes no difference anyway.

[ZZcamaro]

Originally Posted by Jericho

I think the diameter of the pipe would effect the 'lag' more than the distance from the source. But, were only talking of 10+ft? In truth the lag should feel exactly the same if not so close that it makes no difference anyway.

The lag is caused by how long it takes to pressurize the area....Now think about this:
Where you place the Blowoff valve can have a great effect on what portion of the tube remains pressurized....There is a reason that STS builds it the way they do...
Also the right size turbo will be spooled up faster, and lagged reduced....Trust me, you may talk about lag, but when you drive a car that has the proper setup and tuning installed, you will be hard pressed to show me the lag.

Just my opinion, but I do have a lot of testing and seat time to verify.

[STS Guy]

:WINNER:

You are absolutely correct. The SC versus Turbo debate is an awesome one with those that understand the physics and realities of each. I do not want to harsh on anyone so forgive me for sounding like it, but hearing "My SC is better cause your turbos don't boost till 2000 RPM..."

Superchargers boost at almost IDENTICALLY the same RPMs!!!

"Turbocharged engines often suffer from lag because it takes a second or so for the exhaust gases that drive the impeller/turbine to reach sufficient velocity before boost is created. "

I copied that from a tech article from the 1930's

Thank god we now have this amazing thing called FUEL INJECTION with adjustable ECM programmers and tuning capabilities that compensate for that lag.

If you have been in a car with improper tuning, wrong spring, wrong BOV placement, wrong this, wrong that.....Guess what- LAG.

(Enter STS) When you purchase a system that takes half a year or more to test, beatup, screwup, blowup, evaluate, then repeat till right...
Guess what-you hit the pedal and your out of there like a bat straight from hell.

[5th Gen SS]

Just wait. I've got a few other ideas to talk to you about this week. Phase 1, Phase 2, etc..

[STS Guy]

Originally Posted by 5th Gen SS

Just wait. I've got a few other ideas to talk to you about this week. Phase 1, Phase 2, etc..

I am already drooling about it Stephen...believe me.

(Love the air intake idea)

[dmack2k7]

sweeet nice debate sts guy.

[dmack2k7]

[Jericho]

this is cool

[STS Guy]

Thanks a bunch guys. I appreciate the fact that you don't just view the source as someone trying to hawk their system.
As you can see, there is a large amount of old, outdated, and just plain obsolete 'information'. Forums like Camaro5 are a goldmine for misinformation and undeniable fact all mixed into one.

Technology is a beautiful thing.

[talwell]

Originally Posted by STS Guy

Thanks a bunch guys. I appreciate the fact that you don't just view the source as someone trying to hawk their system.
As you can see, there is a large amount of old, outdated, and just plain obsolete 'information'. Forums like Camaro5 are a goldmine for misinformation and undeniable fact all mixed into one.

Technology is a beautiful thing.

Do you have any updated pics of the underside of the car to show the boosted air return lines to the intake? I would be really interested to see how you squeezed them in there

[5th Gen SS]

Originally Posted by talwell

Do you have any updated pics of the underside of the car to show the boosted air return lines to the intake? I would be really interested to see how you squeezed them in there

I will get the pics posted soon. Quality takes time. I will keep everybody updated on two different project cars.