FIXED 469hp/600tq: (boost leak)YSi numbers low on Stock L99 with Holley Mid-Ram - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

RaiderSS · 01-22-2015, 09:52 PM

Just picked up my car from tuning after YSi install...

Build Specs:
L99 with stock internals and valve train
ATI underdrive damper
ECS-YSi 10-rib kit (7.9 lower, 3.45 upper, and restricted)
Holley Mid-ram manifold
2" TSP Long tube headers w/ off road mids
Built 6L80e
3200 FTI converter
3:45 GMPP final gear
ZL1 pump, MSD Voltage booster, ID850 injectors
315-35-20r rear tire

Before delivering to tuner it was idling super rough but i found no vacuum leaks and my scanner was only picking up random misfires (p0300) and no other codes.

Tuner got it on the dyno and saw the MAF was spiking and killing the fuel trims causing it to idle rough and buck with sharp throttle changes. After working with the car for 4 days it was given back to me but the results are MUCH lower than expected....

431HP/422TQ....WTF!

Tuner tells me I have a few issues:
1. YSi is to big for the stock L99
We are barely spinning it and yet the car makes 7# of boost but no torque ramping on the dyno graph

2. The car had to be tuned Air Speed density
I am running a ZL1 MAP sensor and the blower is moving a lot of air but has no velocity

3. Holley Mid-Rise Manifold is working against the blower
With the YSi moving a large mass of air but with low velocity so the Mid-Rams cubic volume is further slowing the air flow
(Like blowing through a large straw versus a small one more air through larger straw more air pressure through smaller straw)

4. Intake charge tube
The ECS kit charge tube doesn't fit the angle of the Holley intake so I hacked it up to fit but its not smooth and has a rough bend in the 45* angled coupler just before the throttle body rite after the MAF.

Tuner suggestions to get the 600Hp I thought this setup would give me though I knew the internals will have to be upgraded to get 700Hp end goal
1. Tuner says get a smaller blower, saying the V3 will be more efficient when we spin it up higher than the V7

2. Put the stock manifold back on which I hated hearing as I had just modified the car to fit the Holley Mid-Rise before blower and the car was breathing and idling fine as an NA setup. He says the smaller volume of stock intake will move air faster

3. He said my charge tube was not causing the flow issues but he did recomend switching the Methanol injection to M1 from washer fluid and getting rid of MAF for IAT sensor

Is there nothing I can do to make this setup work?
I'm pretty sure he was dead on but 423HP is just way to low... Especially when others running a stock bottom end on an L99 and a YSI are seeing great power numbers. I know the DOD valerian couldn't hold to much but I was expecting at minimum 530-550HP range... The trans tune he put is great so I know he took his time on the car. He also said another member of the shop thought a YSi on his vett would mean more power but actually the V3 out performed it!

He recommended I call Vortech for a head unit swap credit.

I have no doubt tuner and shop is top notch but there has to be 100HP somewhere getting lost or was all my research for nothing and this setup just won't work?

jrpxxii · 01-22-2015, 09:55 PM

Don't know who did your install and tune but something is WAY wrong

TitusSS · 01-22-2015, 10:02 PM

something may or may not be wrong but without your boost numbers it's kind of hard to tell.

RaiderSS · 01-22-2015, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrpxxii

Don't know who did your install and tune but something is WAY wrong

I did the install and one of the most respected shops in GA did the tune but I think something small is causing a big issue. Im not ASE certified but I am an Engineer with over 10 years automotive repair experience.

I think I will start by having charge tube and throttle coupler corrected then getting a pulley one size down.

RaiderSS · 01-22-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitusSS

something may or may not be wrong but without your boost numbers it's kind of hard to tell.

Will post graph...

jrpxxii · 01-22-2015, 10:12 PM

Even at only 7lbs it should making ALOT more power

jrpxxii · 01-22-2015, 10:15 PM

Im not saying you did anything wrong but there are a lot of guys running the YSI and sure your motor might not be big enough to max the blower out but it should still make good power

yotaman96 · 01-22-2015, 10:48 PM

They make some good points, but the numbers still seem way too low. As far as the MAF issues, have you checked to see if you have the strong sensor? Was the shop MTI? They tuned my car once. It was a horrible tune. Had to have it fixed somewhere else. Cost me a lot of money to trailer it there and back, plus what they charged just to have to have someone else fix it.

RaiderSS · 01-23-2015, 12:09 AM

They checked the whole build and do several ECS kits monthly after looking it over on a lift all was fine...

Motor ran fine with holley manifold before blower, but after all the ducting was connected it would start then slowly die idle ling like the fuel mixture was wrong and I could smell it. Tuner and I both agree the MAF seemed restricted and he saw the logs were it was spiking erratically... I thought because of ducting but he said it was more than that but I don't see how unless something small went bad during install.

Shop doesn't matter i did the work I just wanted to see if anyone had a similar issue.

Yes I have strong MAF but want to swap it back to factory unit to see if my strong MAF went limp

I will also tripple check vacuum leaks at blow off connections PCV points...

It has a new 3bar GM MAP, new plugs, new plug wires and all coils are firing

Could bad fuel vapor to PCV (EGR valve if not mistaken) cause a vacum leak?

Could exhaust leak cause this?

SuperchargedStealth · 01-23-2015, 12:24 AM

Take the restrictor plate out. The 3.45 pulley is larger then the 3.33 that is usually supplied. Since you have a larger blower pulley and the restrictor, that may have an affect on why you're spinning so low and not achieving bigger numbers.

Bo White · 01-23-2015, 02:42 AM

I'm running the 7.8 x 3.47 pulley setup on my Paxton 1500 and am at 12psi.

Slowhawk · 01-23-2015, 07:46 AM

You can't really do 7psi with a YSI. It will make nothing in the midrange. The blower is made to spin 14psi on a stock motor minimum.

Pulley it for more boost.

Nitroman28 · 01-23-2015, 07:54 AM

Put a smaller pulley on it and wastgate to control boost. Spin it close to it's max rpm and set the wastegate at 12psi.

DarkCry956 · 01-23-2015, 08:24 AM

Instead of a new pulley Id start by opening up that restrictor to whatever PSI you want. Or just remove it if all it gives is 12psi. I ran my YSi @ 13psi on a stock bottom end no issues. 720/560 or something like that with a cam. I added a iat sensor after the MAF and meth nozzles.

01-22-2015, 09:52 PM	#1
RaiderSS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS2 DeadBLK Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 481	FIXED 469hp/600tq: (boost leak)YSi numbers low on Stock L99 with Holley Mid-Ram Just picked up my car from tuning after YSi install... Build Specs: L99 with stock internals and valve train ATI underdrive damper ECS-YSi 10-rib kit (7.9 lower, 3.45 upper, and restricted) Holley Mid-ram manifold 2" TSP Long tube headers w/ off road mids Built 6L80e 3200 FTI converter 3:45 GMPP final gear ZL1 pump, MSD Voltage booster, ID850 injectors 315-35-20r rear tire Before delivering to tuner it was idling super rough but i found no vacuum leaks and my scanner was only picking up random misfires (p0300) and no other codes. Tuner got it on the dyno and saw the MAF was spiking and killing the fuel trims causing it to idle rough and buck with sharp throttle changes. After working with the car for 4 days it was given back to me but the results are MUCH lower than expected.... 431HP/422TQ....WTF! Tuner tells me I have a few issues: 1. YSi is to big for the stock L99 We are barely spinning it and yet the car makes 7# of boost but no torque ramping on the dyno graph 2. The car had to be tuned Air Speed density I am running a ZL1 MAP sensor and the blower is moving a lot of air but has no velocity 3. Holley Mid-Rise Manifold is working against the blower With the YSi moving a large mass of air but with low velocity so the Mid-Rams cubic volume is further slowing the air flow (Like blowing through a large straw versus a small one more air through larger straw more air pressure through smaller straw) 4. Intake charge tube The ECS kit charge tube doesn't fit the angle of the Holley intake so I hacked it up to fit but its not smooth and has a rough bend in the 45* angled coupler just before the throttle body rite after the MAF. Tuner suggestions to get the 600Hp I thought this setup would give me though I knew the internals will have to be upgraded to get 700Hp end goal 1. Tuner says get a smaller blower, saying the V3 will be more efficient when we spin it up higher than the V7 2. Put the stock manifold back on which I hated hearing as I had just modified the car to fit the Holley Mid-Rise before blower and the car was breathing and idling fine as an NA setup. He says the smaller volume of stock intake will move air faster 3. He said my charge tube was not causing the flow issues but he did recomend switching the Methanol injection to M1 from washer fluid and getting rid of MAF for IAT sensor Is there nothing I can do to make this setup work? I'm pretty sure he was dead on but 423HP is just way to low... Especially when others running a stock bottom end on an L99 and a YSI are seeing great power numbers. I know the DOD valerian couldn't hold to much but I was expecting at minimum 530-550HP range... The trans tune he put is great so I know he took his time on the car. He also said another member of the shop thought a YSi on his vett would mean more power but actually the V3 out performed it! He recommended I call Vortech for a head unit swap credit. I have no doubt tuner and shop is top notch but there has to be 100HP somewhere getting lost or was all my research for nothing and this setup just won't work? __________________ RaiderSS - COTW 6/6/11 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1312764428 Last edited by RaiderSS; 08-30-2015 at 09:39 PM.

01-22-2015, 09:55 PM	#2
jrpxxii Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS 427ci Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 3,355	Don't know who did your install and tune but something is WAY wrong __________________

01-22-2015, 10:12 PM	#6
jrpxxii Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS 427ci Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 3,355	Even at only 7lbs it should making ALOT more power __________________

01-22-2015, 10:15 PM	#7
jrpxxii Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS 427ci Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 3,355	Im not saying you did anything wrong but there are a lot of guys running the YSI and sure your motor might not be big enough to max the blower out but it should still make good power __________________

01-22-2015, 10:48 PM	#8
yotaman96 Drives: 2017 Camaro SS1LE 2000 Trans Am WS6 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portland, TN Posts: 2,955 View My Garage	They make some good points, but the numbers still seem way too low. As far as the MAF issues, have you checked to see if you have the strong sensor? Was the shop MTI? They tuned my car once. It was a horrible tune. Had to have it fixed somewhere else. Cost me a lot of money to trailer it there and back, plus what they charged just to have to have someone else fix it. __________________ 2017 Krypton Green SS 1LE Magnacharged 2000 Trans Am WS6 manual trans 2002 Trans Am 2015 Ram Crew Cab Cummins

01-22-2015, 10:02 PM	#3
TitusSS Drives: ECS Supercharged 2010 SS Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Spring Posts: 121	something may or may not be wrong but without your boost numbers it's kind of hard to tell.

01-23-2015, 12:09 AM	#9
RaiderSS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS2 DeadBLK Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 481	They checked the whole build and do several ECS kits monthly after looking it over on a lift all was fine... Motor ran fine with holley manifold before blower, but after all the ducting was connected it would start then slowly die idle ling like the fuel mixture was wrong and I could smell it. Tuner and I both agree the MAF seemed restricted and he saw the logs were it was spiking erratically... I thought because of ducting but he said it was more than that but I don't see how unless something small went bad during install. Shop doesn't matter i did the work I just wanted to see if anyone had a similar issue. Yes I have strong MAF but want to swap it back to factory unit to see if my strong MAF went limp I will also tripple check vacuum leaks at blow off connections PCV points... It has a new 3bar GM MAP, new plugs, new plug wires and all coils are firing Could bad fuel vapor to PCV (EGR valve if not mistaken) cause a vacum leak? Could exhaust leak cause this? __________________ RaiderSS - COTW 6/6/11 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1312764428

01-23-2015, 12:24 AM	#10
SuperchargedStealth Drives: '11 Camaro Supercharged Convertible Join Date: May 2014 Location: NJ Posts: 481	Take the restrictor plate out. The 3.45 pulley is larger then the 3.33 that is usually supplied. Since you have a larger blower pulley and the restrictor, that may have an affect on why you're spinning so low and not achieving bigger numbers. __________________ 2011 Triple Black SS convertible, LSX 427, PRC 260cc heads, Callies Ultra Billet Rods, Wiseco -20 cc piston, Callies Dragon Slayer crank, Strange Dana 60 rear w/3.73 gear ratio and driveshaft, Pfadt coilovers, Pfadt sway bars, Pfadt trailing arms, Pfadt tie rods, Pfadt subframe bushings, Vortech YSi with wastegate and twin BOV, Haltech ECU, Mantic 9000 Twin Clutch, ALKY control meth system with dual nozzle, Squash twin fuel pumps, ACS T3 ports, VIS Terminator Hood, Seibon ZL style lip.

01-23-2015, 02:42 AM	#11
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,018	I'm running the 7.8 x 3.47 pulley setup on my Paxton 1500 and am at 12psi. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

01-23-2015, 07:46 AM	#12
Slowhawk Drives: 1999 Trans Am Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bridgewater,Ma Posts: 2,017	You can't really do 7psi with a YSI. It will make nothing in the midrange. The blower is made to spin 14psi on a stock motor minimum. Pulley it for more boost.

01-23-2015, 07:54 AM	#13
Nitroman28 Drives: 2010 Camaro SS 416/4L80 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,834 View My Garage	Put a smaller pulley on it and wastgate to control boost. Spin it close to it's max rpm and set the wastegate at 12psi.

01-23-2015, 08:24 AM	#14
DarkCry956 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Texas RGV Posts: 794	Instead of a new pulley Id start by opening up that restrictor to whatever PSI you want. Or just remove it if all it gives is 12psi. I ran my YSi @ 13psi on a stock bottom end no issues. 720/560 or something like that with a cam. I added a iat sensor after the MAF and meth nozzles.