V6 Speed?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by SS4EVER

Oh definitely. I know it's sorta unfair to compare a FWD turbo 4 to a RWD N/A V6 Camaro. I do also realize that RWD > FWD ultimately. Which is what I'm trying to get next.

But the Cobalt SS Turbocharged with it's 260hp DI, VVT, Turbocharged and inter-cooled engine makes 260hp & 260ft lbs of torque. It also weighs in only at 2991lbs so 260hp is going to feel plenty powerful for a car its size and I realize that.

My only concern with the Camaro is its weight. Which @ around 3740lbs with only 300hp (which is a lot don't get me wrong) it may not be enough to really move the Camaro as fast as I would like it too. I realize there will be mods out there, but in order to get any real gains, without converting to F.I. bolt-ons will only get you so far.... I guess I just have to wait for the V6 to come out before I can really make any decisions.

Even if they are the same in the 1/4 it will be a completely different ride.

Have you seen the latest comparison of small turbo cars in Road and Track? They have the Cobalt winning against the Lancer, WRX, and Speed3. What's interesting is that the Lancer had a 3700lbs test weight. I drove that car and didn't feel like it was heavy. Handled just fine. It has 237bhp and manages a 14.1 1/4 mile. How can the Camaro not get into the 13s with 63 more hp and probably way more torque off the line?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7103

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...risonchart.pdf

[Evilangel]

Interesting point. I'm sure the AWD helps a little for the initial take-off ( by the way he is not talking about the base Lancer, rather the new Ralliart Lancer ) but even so the Camaro should be able to at least match the 14.1 in the quarter mile.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

The jury is out on the V6 performance still. With the SS you get huge Brembo brakes, an upgraded suspension system, a bulletproof trans with coolers, obviously the LS3, better rubber, and lots of other goodies.

In a straight line the V6 may be able to get to 6.1 but it is going to feel sluggish and heavy. There is no way around that. And it will feel like a boat through the twisties. I have a feeling the SS will even feel like a boat which is going to make the V6 really feel fat.

motor trend called the v6 camaro the american g37, and in thier review of the g37 the main thing they liked was the handling. so you essentially need to do more research. just because the car is heavy doesnt mean that it is going to feel like a boat.

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by Dom

Even if they are the same in the 1/4 it will be a completely different ride.

Have you seen the latest comparison of small turbo cars in Road and Track? They have the Cobalt winning against the Lancer, WRX, and Speed3. What's interesting is that the Lancer had a 3700lbs test weight. I drove that car and didn't feel like it was heavy. Handled just fine. It has 237bhp and manages a 14.1 1/4 mile.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7103

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...risonchart.pdf

I'm hoping that the Camaro V6 is capable of low 14.0's high 13's stock, or near stock... Because if that's the case I'll be looking into a V6 Camaro. I'm also not saying it isn't possible, because we have to wait and see...

"How can the Camaro not get into the 13s with 63 more hp and probably way more torque off the line?"

Again with the comparison between the Cobalt SS/TC and a Camaro V6...

It's not the 63hp more you should be looking at it's actually the torque of the V6 Camaro that's rated at 276ft lbs of torque... That's only 16ft lbs of more torque vs the Cobalt SS/TC and it weighs around 750 lbs more, which is more of a factor to be considering when talking about acceleration...

with only 16ft lbs more torque more and weighing 750lbs more than the Cobalt, that's why realistically I don't think it'll be hitting high 13's stock...

[Mblock66]

Originally Posted by headpunter

motor trend called the v6 camaro the american g37, and in thier review of the g37 the main thing they liked was the handling. so you essentially need to do more research. just because the car is heavy doesnt mean that it is going to feel like a boat.

You guys put too much faith in magazines and believing everything you read. If you implying that I "research" more by reading road and track then I think you need to find better research yourself. Read about how the underpinnings of how the car is made. Yes it is a nice updated IRS and so forth but you have to understand that it is still a 4000 lb car once you are in it. No matter what someone says it is almost impossible to make that feel and drive like a 2800 lb car. The V6 has less suspension going for it then the SS and as i said I bet the SS still drives heavy. There is just no way around it. It is the same thing as the GT500. It s 50k mustang with tons of suspension to make it handle like crazy but it still drives heavy b/c it is heavy.

Maybe you arent understanding what I mean when I say "handle". It very well may hit good numbers in the magazine skidpad and slol but it will still travel a lot and feel heavy. Go drive a vette then a gt500 and you will know what I mean.

[Dom]

V6 is 250lbs less then SS. Swap the SS's suspension over, shocks/springs/sways, and you got a better handling car. For a daily V6 wins hands down. $8K less on top of it. I don't need any massive power to get to and from work during my 2m drive.


When I had my V6 I swapped the 1LE suspension in it. So I had the best of both worlds. Better suspension and less weight. And then I even took out a bunch of weight. What a difference that made. It felt like a go kart.

The suspension differences were so minute anyway. This is why I went to an even stiffer 1LE and skipped over the Z28 suspension. Some of you act like it's so much better. It's not. It's slightly stiffer.

[MrIcky]

The little Cobalt SS will blow your mind . I haven't seen the 4dr yet, but man that 4dr would be a QShip and a half.

I'm fairly set on the V6 Camaro at this point, the only issue I have is that the Camaro is the exact opposite of a QShip (which is also what I love, it's beautiful). A little grey Cobalt might as well just disappear while the Camaro is screaming loudly to come give me a ticket.

Not saying I'm changing my mind, but giving respect where it's deserved.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Go drive a vette then a gt500 and you will know what I mean.

Tell me you didn't seriously just compare a solid axle GT500 pos (sorry...for 40k, I expect MUCH better) to a IRS Corvette to try and prove the V6 Camaro won't feel light on its feet?

I understand you don't think the V6 can possibly be a good car...but I still maintain you need to drive this car before critiquing its 'deficiencies', because what you keep saying is going against every single review that was ever given by somebody who has actually driven the car. None of them said it felt heavy. None of them said it felt slow........

[TomServo]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

With the SS you get huge Brembo brakes, an upgraded suspension system, a bulletproof trans with coolers, obviously the LS3, better rubber, and lots of other goodies.

I was told the 2LT/RS comes with the exact same tires/wheels as the SS. I plan on replacing some of the 2LT suspension with SS parts and I'm sure the lighter weight V6 will be the better handler.

[Mblock66]

Well if you talk about replacing parts then you have made my point and you aren't talking apples to apples. The OP was referring to a 100% stock car (at least I think). Of course you can add the SS parts to the V6 and make it handle better. But then you can buy aftermarket parts for the SS and make it better as well.

No I have not driven it you are correct. And I never said it wouldn't be a good car. But people are making it seem like this car will be better around a track then a 911 GT2. It is a 25k car, you can't expect it to handle even as good as the vette. I was comparing the GT500 in weight to the vette in weight. The feel like different cars. Even heavy cars on an IRS FEEL heavy. I dunno that is my experience and without going on a diet a little or putting Thousands in aftermarket parts it will feel heavy.

Now I am not saying this thing isn't going to out handle a taurus or camry....of course it will it will kill it. I just think in the expectation of what the magazines have put out people think this thing is going to compete with an elise... It all depends on what you are comparing this too and what you expectation levels are.

If you have never driven a vette or porshe etc then this thing will be fierce in V6 or V8 trim. But if you are comparing it to the likes of those cars this will feel and drive like a pig.. that is all I am trying to say.

[Dom]

I don't know how they're doing it on the 5th gen, but on the 4th gen this is how they did it. The suspension was stiffer to handle the extra weight of the V8 not to give it better handling over the V6. In fact they used the same rate rear springs and same size front sway bar at times. In 98 they went to smaller sway bars and stiffer springs for the V6s. And LS1 got softer springs not because GM wanted it to handle worse then LT1, but because the aluminum block didn't weigh as much as the iron block it replaced. Both cars handled the same. They will most likely give the 5th gen SS stiffer shocks/springs and larger sway bar or bars to account for the extra 250lbs it has to throw around. The differences on the 4th gen were so small it was a waste of time and money to even upgrade to the Z suspension. I expect the same this time around and expect both cars to handle the same.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Even heavy cars on an IRS FEEL heavy. I dunno that is my experience and without going on a diet a little or putting Thousands in aftermarket parts it will feel heavy.

.... But if you are comparing it to the likes of those cars this will feel and drive like a pig.. that is all I am trying to say.

Then we'll agree to disagree, I suppose.

But come a few months when this thing is out and about...I expect just as many people eating crow as they did when prices were announced...this car WILL deliver.

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

The little Cobalt SS will blow your mind . I haven't seen the 4dr yet, but man that 4dr would be a QShip and a half.

I'm fairly set on the V6 Camaro at this point, the only issue I have is that the Camaro is the exact opposite of a QShip (which is also what I love, it's beautiful). A little grey Cobalt might as well just disappear while the Camaro is screaming loudly to come give me a ticket.

Not saying I'm changing my mind, but giving respect where it's deserved.

Over all the Camaro V6 is not going to disappoint!

Unless you have your sites on performance alone, like I do which I know I'm better off holding off for an SS...

My father a test driver for GM has been driving the Camaro frequently and after driving a Camaro LS he said he was impressed. Impressed to the point where he wants one, even a V6, and my dad is a V8 kind of guy....

[Mblock66]

Thats cool. The strange thing is someone else just posted a thread of a "friend" that just drove the V6 and said "while it was fun peppy, it left something to be desired" or something similar to that

It all comes down to your personal tastes and expectations. I am also in it for pretty much just the performance. Can't get SS performance for that kinda money anywhere in the new car market