Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2017, 01:50 PM   #1
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Fixing Gear Grind/ Shift Issues w/ upgraded syncros and master cylinder

Ever since buying my manual 2010 2LT in 2012, I have always had shifting issues. Shifts to 1st and 2nd (upshift or down) at high RPM always causes either grinding, or the gear will just be locked out completely. I have upgraded to Redline D4 fluid, a Barton Short Throw Shifter, and even a new OEM clutch to no avail.

So now I am looking at a couple more upgrades to help solve the issue

1) One Piece Braided Clutch Line (I can't find any upgrades for the v6 however)

2) Ideal Garage Master Cylinder (website to buy seems to currently be down unfortunately)

3) Upgraded Synchros (does this upgrade exist for the v6?)

Does anyone have any experience with these upgrades to the v6 or can give me any advice for these issues that I have been experiencing? On one hand I really don't want to have to just upgrade to a newer camaro after all the work I have put into my 2010, but on the other hand it really sucks to never be able to drive the car hard in lower gears. Pretty much impossible to pull off a line with my 2nd gear issues
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 12:19 PM   #2
arkentect

 
arkentect's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SGM 1LT M6
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,630
Hey DJ.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you but slightly different. Bought the car 2 years ago and have always had a grind from 2-3 under hard acceleration. Last summer I upgraded from the stock tranny fluid to Royal Purple gear oil and the grind disappeared. However, now I have a crunch from 1-2 but I believe that to be caused by bad clutch/brake fluid or air in the lines
__________________
Arkentect's Build Thread!! - UPSTATE C5 MEMBER
2010 SGM M6 1LT - SOLD
Current - 2009 C6 Corvette Z51
arkentect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 02:33 PM   #3
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkentect View Post
Hey DJ.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you but slightly different. Bought the car 2 years ago and have always had a grind from 2-3 under hard acceleration. Last summer I upgraded from the stock tranny fluid to Royal Purple gear oil and the grind disappeared. However, now I have a crunch from 1-2 but I believe that to be caused by bad clutch/brake fluid or air in the lines
Thanks for the advice- I haven't changed the tranny or brake fluid in a couple years, so I'll tackle that this weekend.
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 02:51 PM   #4
arkentect

 
arkentect's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SGM 1LT M6
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,630
I recommend doing the rear diff at the same time as the tranny. Its the same fluid believe it or not and as long as you have the car up in the air and a fluid pump why not
__________________
Arkentect's Build Thread!! - UPSTATE C5 MEMBER
2010 SGM M6 1LT - SOLD
Current - 2009 C6 Corvette Z51
arkentect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 11:11 AM   #5
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkentect View Post
I recommend doing the rear diff at the same time as the tranny. Its the same fluid believe it or not and as long as you have the car up in the air and a fluid pump why not
Thanks for the advice. I did rear fluids a year ago I think, but if I have the car up then why not. I bought Red Line D4 ATF Fluid for the tranny- so this is totally fine for the rear differential too?
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 12:40 PM   #6
arkentect

 
arkentect's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SGM 1LT M6
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by djrasras View Post
Thanks for the advice. I did rear fluids a year ago I think, but if I have the car up then why not. I bought Red Line D4 ATF Fluid for the tranny- so this is totally fine for the rear differential too?
In the V6 the manual tranny fluid is the same 75w-90 Gear Oil. I put the same Royal Purple 75w-90 gear oil in both and make sure the rear diff fluid has the friction modifier. I'm thinking about swapping to Redline for the tranny though just to see if it helps my 1-2 crunch
__________________
Arkentect's Build Thread!! - UPSTATE C5 MEMBER
2010 SGM M6 1LT - SOLD
Current - 2009 C6 Corvette Z51
arkentect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2017, 01:14 PM   #7
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkentect View Post
In the V6 the manual tranny fluid is the same 75w-90 Gear Oil. I put the same Royal Purple 75w-90 gear oil in both and make sure the rear diff fluid has the friction modifier. I'm thinking about swapping to Redline for the tranny though just to see if it helps my 1-2 crunch
I've heard Royal Purple doesn't need any FM, but I have also heard that it doesn't hurt to add any, so I'll give that a try. What brand do you recommend for FMs?
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 09:50 AM   #8
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Does anyone know if a one-piece braided clutch line and upgraded synchros exist for v6's?
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 08:49 PM   #9
esperman
You Can Call Me Jay
 
esperman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1LT RJT Manual w/CAI & Solo
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, KY area
Posts: 1,284
I'd recommend Redline 75W-90 NS Gear Oil for your tranny, and capping off the clutch line COMPLETELY from the brake master cylinder. Install a GTO Clutch Reservoir. Then suck out your brake fluid in the line and put some DOT4 SYN Brake Fluid for the clutch. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE & cost effective.
esperman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 08:02 PM   #10
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by esperman View Post
I'd recommend Redline 75W-90 NS Gear Oil for your tranny, and capping off the clutch line COMPLETELY from the brake master cylinder. Install a GTO Clutch Reservoir. Then suck out your brake fluid in the line and put some DOT4 SYN Brake Fluid for the clutch. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE & cost effective.
Ya I have a the clutch reservoir and use Motul for it, and use Redline on the Tranny. Makes it a little better, but still a lot of grinding shifting into 2nd gear, which is why I'm wondering if any v6ers have upgraded their master cylinder with any success. Apparently a lot of v8 guys have seen improvement by doing this.
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 07:40 PM   #11
esperman
You Can Call Me Jay
 
esperman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1LT RJT Manual w/CAI & Solo
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, KY area
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by djrasras View Post
Ya I have a the clutch reservoir and use Motul for it, and use Redline on the Tranny. Makes it a little better, but still a lot of grinding shifting into 2nd gear, which is why I'm wondering if any v6ers have upgraded their master cylinder with any success. Apparently a lot of v8 guys have seen improvement by doing this.
I'm confused...why would you need to upgrade the brake master cylinder if the clutch line isn't attached to it anymore? That's the entire point of the separate clutch reservoir.

Also, if you put that D4 ATF in your tranny, you may have ruined your synchros....NEVER put ATF fluid in this manual grearbox. ONLY 75W-90 Non Slip Gear Oil.

And DON'T put Red Line D4 ATF in your rear diff! You'll fry that too.

Last edited by esperman; 06-28-2017 at 07:54 PM.
esperman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 06:49 AM   #12
djrasras
 
djrasras's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT Bumblebee
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by esperman View Post
I'm confused...why would you need to upgrade the brake master cylinder if the clutch line isn't attached to it anymore? That's the entire point of the separate clutch reservoir.

Also, if you put that D4 ATF in your tranny, you may have ruined your synchros....NEVER put ATF fluid in this manual grearbox. ONLY 75W-90 Non Slip Gear Oil.

And DON'T put Red Line D4 ATF in your rear diff! You'll fry that too.
You're right about the master cylinder upgrade- I wasnt thinking

Just curious, why is D4 ATF bad for the synchros. I guess I didn't do enough research; I went back and saw that the guys on c5 who have recommended Redline ATF have v8s, not v6s- does that have anything to do with it? I havnen't put many miles on the car since doing the tranny fluid change, so if its a big deal I can definetly swap it out for 75W-90 this weekend.
__________________
AirLift Air Suspension, Stainless Works Long Tube Headers + Hi-Flo Cats, Resonated X-Pipe, MRT V2 Mufflers, VMAX Ice-olator and Ported Throttle Body, Barton Short Throw Shifter, CAI Intake + Air Scoop
djrasras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 08:08 AM   #13
acammer
GPI Sales Consultant
 
acammer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS SGM
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weedsport, NY
Posts: 2,787
I'll just share my experience on the journey of shifting better. Mine was a v8/m6 car, but it had some similar symptoms. My 1-2 upshift would grind and/or lockout if rushed. It was ok going down. My 2-3 would also crunch just a touch if really banging through the gears quickly. The car had 16k miles on when I got it, and was doing this. It had a Hurst Billet Pro Two short throw shifter which was pretty sloppy feeling left to right, and noisy.

First thing I did was flush the trans fluid and replaced with Redline D4 ATF. That meets/exceeds factory specifications for a TR6060 - I'm not sure what the V6 cars specify. The fluid change smoothed the trans out quite a bit in day to day driving, but it did nothing to solve for my upshift grinds.

Next, I tried the Ideal Garage master cylinder and dedicated clutch fluid reservoir. It moved the engagement point a little higher on the pedal, and seemed to help some with the upshift grind. Still didn't eliminate it.

Next, I decided I would throw a stock shifter in the car to see what that did for me. My theory was that the 44% throw reduction I was getting with the Hurst shifter was causing my shift speed to outrun my clutch speed. Going to the stock shifter made a tremendous difference. It felt like I could finally drive the car. My 1-2 grind essentially disappeared. I can still introduce it if I go for a full hero maximum effort 1-2 shift, but it's totally fine other than that. The shifter feels nice and weighted, and is dead silent.

For my car, I think the ultimate issue was that the Hurst shifter had very worn bushings - causing an incomplete/weak push from gear to gear. Without sufficient pressure the syncro couldn't do it's job, it so it would grind or lock out.

I'm not sure if that helps, but I thought I'd share my experiences with a similar problem. It was extremely frustrating, making me doubt my own driving at times. The relief and joy I now get driving the car makes all the chasing worth it.

__________________
GPI Max Package 2.0: Brodix BR7 heads/GPI porting, MAX3 cam, ST2116LSR, BSR Max Lift rockers, LS7 LSXR with 103mm TB, Vararam OTR, Mcleod RXT, G-Force/Strange 9" IRS setup with 4.63 gear. 551whp, 11.1@124mph.
Got a question about a GPI product? Feel free to shoot me a message!
acammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2017, 07:15 PM   #14
Ventmaster


 
Ventmaster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 1SS 6spd
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by djrasras View Post
Ya I have a the clutch reservoir and use Motul for it, and use Redline on the Tranny. Makes it a little better, but still a lot of grinding shifting into 2nd gear, which is why I'm wondering if any v6ers have upgraded their master cylinder with any success. Apparently a lot of v8 guys have seen improvement by doing this.
That's a definite YES- Royal Purple 75-90w gear oil in the manual trans (no automatic trans fluid for the V6) and an Ideal G clutch master cylinder. I tried multiple trans oils in the V6 and RP was my last pick (AMSoil, Redline, Motul, you name it) and proved to be the best. A separate reservoir for the clutch and DOT4 (Motul 600) also improved things a great deal.

However, if the sychro's have received too much abuse, no amount of TLC will bring them back... I never heard if any upgraded 2nd gear synchro's were approved for the V6. That sort of thing got reserved for the V8's!

Good luck!
Ventmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.