V6 Supercharger or Turbocharger?

[RT21]

Originally Posted by Thwick

As they say, i'd rather her screaming during, than sighing after.

Nice...that is my new sig.

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by linkwpc

My answer to this is that if you are planning to supercharge or turbocharge a V6, just save your money and get a V8. I have owned a V6 mustang for 9 years now, and I learn I just should have got a V8 in the first place. I do not find any point on trying to supercharge a V6 when you can get a V8. But hey, its your money and time!

I understand your post, but at 18, i cant afford the insurance on the SS, but i do know that i will have the money for the modifying process soon after the delivery of my car. By 2010, i should be able to drop some big poweradders on.

[Wm Holden]

we like big power adders...

[delius]

Originally Posted by TJ91

Hey guys, since i know alot of you here are very genious when it comes to this stuff, i wanted to know which is more cost effective and better when it comes to our v6, would it be the supercharger or the turbo?
I know ive heard that turbos tend to give more power but then theres turbolag. I personally love the sound of a supercharger, and i really want a good power adder, just dont know which is more cost effective, safer to run, and better.
Anyone care to help out

Well me personally...I am gonna hold out for a Twin Screw emissions from Whipple for the LS3 (yes i know you were askin on the V6..maybe they will make a V6 blower)...they already have an off-road one (doesn't mean you can't put it on your car..just means you gotta find a "cool" inspection station)

But Twin Screw are the best imo...they dont have fall-off like traditional roots.

BUT..

With the turbo..yes you have lag..but you only use it when it you put the rpms up there...so that means you get better mpg versus an always active supercharger.

And with the blower...dont have to deal with boost controls, timers, having to downshift to keep the boost, or expensive plumbing.

And with the Twin Screw design...it helps dissipate heat better than roots...

But the Twin Screw doesn't have that roots whine that everyone loves...but i still will hold out for the whipple.

just for price compare

Roots Kit usually arond 4-5K
Twin Screw 5-7K
Turbo is gonna be a much wider range like from 3 all the way up to 10k and more...just depends what you want.

[MerF]

Originally Posted by delius

but you only use it when it you put the rpms up there...

Your MPG statement is correct...the RPMS statement is not. SC are dependent on RPM, not turbos.

And with the blower...dont have to deal with boost controls, timers, having to downshift to keep the boost, or expensive plumbing.

Boost controllers are for SC as well...unless you are ready to handle the max boost one can put out, then you have to moderate it somehow.
Timers? Turbo timers are a myth...so no problem there.
Downshift for boost? Again, turbos are not dependant on RPMs like a SC is.
Plumbing....ok you are correct there, that is the chief downside to turbo.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by MerF

Your MPG statement is correct...the RPMS statement is not. SC are dependent on RPM, not turbos.

centrifugal s/c's are dependent on RPM as they dont build max boost until higher rpm.

but how are turbos not dependent on rpm? are you making the same amount of boost at idle as you are at WOT?

[delius]

Originally Posted by MerF

Your MPG statement is correct...the RPMS statement is not. SC are dependent on RPM, not turbos.

Boost controllers are for SC as well...unless you are ready to handle the max boost one can put out, then you have to moderate it somehow.
Timers? Turbo timers are a myth...so no problem there.
Downshift for boost? Again, turbos are not dependant on RPMs like a SC is.
Plumbing....ok you are correct there, that is the chief downside to turbo.

Supercharger are always active..yes the boost increases as the rpms build. I do not know the extent of what goes into doing a turbocharged engine...but i do know the SC is the least complicated and you do not need boost controllers for SC , that is also the case on Turbos...Swap the pulleys out if you want to limit your psi or maximize it.

And plus...i don't know why people overlook the whipple design over Roots...its like people only see Roots and Centrifugal. Twin Screw is superior to any of the SC designs...its also the most expensive.

Then you get into intercoolers with Turbos and Roots...and the whipple runs considerably colder w/o an intercooler...even though i usually see anyone who is willin to spend that kinda money also have IC.

And with a twin screw you get a flat curve...no fall-off.

And it has an Adiabatic of around 70-85% with a turbo around that as well.

And also in response to the downshifting on a TCed car...yes you must downshift to initiate boost if you are in the higher gear...this is also the case on centrifugals.

[MerF]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

but how are turbos not dependent on rpm? are you making the same amount of boost at idle as you are at WOT?

It's not completely dependent on RPM, it is dependent on the amount of hot air moving through the exhaust turbine. If the turbo is sized properly for a street application for that engine, you can make boost earlier. My Supra with a PT-57 (ebay special turbo) made full boost around 2500 RPM (~20 PSI). If I was at 5500 RPM but not hitting the gas it's not making boost, but it will make boost at 900 RPM if it's under load and you have it floored, I assure you.

Originally Posted by delius

...Swap the pulleys out if you want to limit your psi or maximize it.

I consider that very limiting and the chief downfall of a SC over a turbo. If I want to make less boost in a SC, I'm affecting the entire torque curve because it will be spinning less all the way up the RPMs. Making less boost on a turbo only effects when it opens the WG, it still builds with the same momentum every time.

Originally Posted by delius

And also in response to the downshifting on a TCed car...yes you must downshift to initiate boost if you are in the higher gear...this is also the case on centrifugals.

I don't see how this is a point, though. Any time you need to downshift it's because you're in the wrong part of your power curve...N/A, TC, SC, N2O...it doesn't matter what you're doing if you need to downshift to get back in the powerband. But if it's making boost, again you don't always have to downshift ot mak max boost in a TC application. See my answer above in this post.

[Tactical Z]

Supercharger, Vortech if possible.

[Muscle Master]

Hey ...











































































How about natural aspiration

[GMRedline]

Originally Posted by linkwpc

My answer to this is that if you are planning to supercharge or turbocharge a V6, just save your money and get a V8. I have owned a V6 mustang for 9 years now, and I learn I just should have got a V8 in the first place. I do not find any point on trying to supercharge a V6 when you can get a V8. But hey, its your money and time!

You don't need 8 cylinders to make big hp.

Originally Posted by MerF

I consider that very limiting and the chief downfall of a SC over a turbo. If I want to make less boost in a SC, I'm affecting the entire torque curve because it will be spinning less all the way up the RPMs.

There are other ways to limit boost with SCs. However, running a larger pulley or "properly sized" pulley is considered best practice. No matter the type of SC application, the biggest problem you will run into is heat. The smaller the pulley, the faster the SC spins, the more heat it creates. So it is good practice to run the largest pulley possible that will create the amount of boost you want.

I hope someone develops a kit based on the Eaton TVS blowers. I already have one of those.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by GMRedline

I hope someone develops a kit based on the Eaton TVS blowers. I already have one of those.

Somebody will... At least, I also hope somebody will.
- Xanthos

[GMRedline]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

Somebody will... At least, I also hope somebody will.
- Xanthos

I have the 1320. The supercharged LS7 uses a TVS 2300. For comparison sake, the 1320 would be considered a M82 based of Eaton's previous naming convention. The ION Redline uses an M62 on a 2.0L (LSJ) and the GTP uses the M90 on a 3.8L (L67). So the 1320 should be well suited for a 3.6L engine.

Even though the M90 is rated to push more air then the 1320 the new TVS superchargers are much more efficient and will out perform their predecessors even with a lower output ratting.

If I were a performance company I would look at adapting a M62 from the LSJ or a M90 from the L67. Those blowers are readily available and easy to pick up second hand. Then offer TVS solutions for those wanting more.

Its fun to day dream about this stuff!

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by GMRedline

I have the 1320. The supercharged LS7 uses a TVS 2300. For comparison sake, the 1320 would be considered a M82 based of Eaton's previous naming convention. The ION Redline uses an M62 on a 2.0L (LSJ) and the GTP uses the M90 on a 3.8L (L67). So the 1320 should be well suited for a 3.6L engine.

Even though the M90 is rated to push more air then the 1320 the new TVS superchargers are much more efficient and will out perform their predecessors even with a lower output ratting.

If I were a performance company I would look at adapting a M62 from the LSJ or a M90 from the L67. Those blowers are readily available and easy to pick up second hand. Then offer TVS solutions for those wanting more.

Its fun to day dream about this stuff!

If nobody comes out with a supercharger kit for it, I may just have one custom made. I was looking at using the Eaton 1900 - didn't realize they had a 1320 version. I'm only looking for 5-6 psi of boost, so the 1320 would definitely be enough, or even the 1050 (to save underhood space). I also noticed that Magnuson offers their blowers in reversed (pulley run from the back of the blower, and throttle body mounted at the front) versions of their superchargers - I would definitely be getting mine like this.

That won't be till the warranty is up though, so I have a long time to think about/plan that.
- Xanthos