The Camaro SS Handling Stacks Up Not Too Bad

[LYCAN]

I am always suspicious about magazine articles where testers drive around on city streets or a drag strip and then come back with their own results. While not a die-hard fan of Top Gear, I did find the episode where the Stig drove the Camaro SS surprising. Yes, it got thrashed by the AMG, but what is surprising is how it trumped the Mustangs. I used to own a Steeda Cobra, and do like them. But that solid axle has to go. That was what I noticed with the GT500. The engine was insane, but I was having a hell of a time with it on the twisties.

The times that the Stig runs are more credible to me than a Motor Trend or Car & Driver article. Sorry. Take a look at the time chart below. While the SS isn't stellar it trumps the Subaru WRX STi, Evo VIII, Evo X, and especially the Mustangs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml

I don't have any first-hand proof or track experience running the SS or the GT (I do race superbikes however), but I don't think that I am buying the argument that the Mustangs are out-shining the Camaros in the handling department. Seat of the pants meter doesn't count here...I'm talking about track results. Yes, the Camaro is a pig on the track I have been told, but again it's a $34K car.

[SWAT 79]

I think it's safe to say that this results are an exception, not the norm. With no model years to show, and the gt500 behind the camaro (as well as the roush mustang which is a much better handler, unless of course it was a 2004 and below because we don't know the model years of the cars) that these times just don't really add up to the norm.


The camaro does many things well, and even better then the mustang, however, handling (stock) is not one of them.

[chain777]

I've never seen them test a 2011 Mustang of any variety, so I have no idea what models those times represent.

[08-G35s/6MT]

Seems you are in Step 2 of the "How to get through your car losing a comparo in a magazine" process.





STAGE ONE: DENIAL
The reader asks himself, “How could this have happened?” Other typical reactions include the following: “My car is the best—everybody knows it because I spend my entire workday telling people so online.” “This has to be a typo.” “Where's my Top Gear article?” At this point, the magazine or laptop is often thrown across the bathroom.



STAGE TWO: ANGER
Attacks frequently center around the “fairness” of a comparo test and often take a personal bent. Here are a few common ones: “You’re on the take.” “Your magazine has an American/European/Japanese car bias. Probably all three.” “My Corvette shouldn’t be compared with anything—it’s in a league of its own.” “You’re stupid.”



STAGE THREE: BARGAINING
“If they’d tested my car, which has the Sport package, it certainly would have won.” Or, “Take away the ‘vehicle’ category, and my car wins.” This is the reader at his most desperate.



STAGE FOUR: DEPRESSION
Now the reader’s emotions turn dysphoric, leading to questions such as, “Why do I even bother with cars?” Friends may notice the reader becoming disconnected from social activities. He stops driving the losing car; even looking at it becomes difficult. The list of “Lows” from the comparison test is never discussed. The inevitable truth of the comparo is beginning to sink in, and the reader feels a profound sadness.



STAGE FIVE: ACCEPTANCE
The reader honestly assesses his car. At the same time, he begins to enjoy the car again and attempts to cope with its shortcomings: “My car does smell like plastic, but I kind of like the smell of plastic.” Or, “Maybe a new set of springs and shocks will fix my car’s sloppy handling.” And, finally, “Screw those guys. I’m going to Bloomington Gold.”

[Z/28orSs]

does it really matter ? the GT is a great car But stock for stock it should handle better but thats just my dumbass opinion. How long has the camaro been kicking GT ass, that did nothing.

But she (camaro) has improved were it matterd most(style. ride, etc)
the sales number dont lie. GM has to focus on bringing the new (my) generation into camaros, and i like the road they have travled. for any handle issues you have there will always be the aftermarket.

o yeah car and driver was at VIS they have a nice write up pay attention to the cts-v AND GT500 times as of right now looks like the z/28 or Hp edition already has a slight advantage!!!

[SWAT 79]

LOL at g35.

[radz28]

There are no newer Mustangs; those are all S197s if I remember correctly. I DO watch the show, and they haven't had an '11 GT or Shelby yet. I'm sure those times would improve. Additionally - with the rumors about how many times they change drivers - I can't give complete faith in their times. This being my favorite show, I give it a lot of credit, but this one raises a flag. Anyways - CAMARO isn't too much slower in some of the tests in the rags'. Hopefully, GM has found the time and resources to refine the chassis a little more very soon so we can stuff those wagon-axle fillies mouths full of manure

[ParisTNDude]

Trying hard to figure out what G35 is trying to say??? Maybe it's important to someone????

[DGthe3]

The Camaro handles better than most people give it credit for. No, it won't carve corners like a Lotus, but why would anyone ever expect that out of a Camaro?


Anyway, I don't even bother to use Top Gear for comparison because it seems like half the time the track is wet, and its hard enough to compare results on days with different temperature and humidity, let alone dry vs wet.

[LYCAN]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

I think it's safe to say that this results are an exception, not the norm. With no model years to show, and the gt500 behind the camaro (as well as the roush mustang which is a much better handler, unless of course it was a 2004 and below because we don't know the model years of the cars) that these times just don't really add up to the norm.


The camaro does many things well, and even better then the mustang, however, handling (stock) is not one of them.

Motor Trend and Car & Driver have their "exceptions" as well. Each test is a case by case basis. However, I'm still not buying the argument that the solid axle mustangs are out-handling the IRS SS models the large percentage of the time. Yes, the Camaro has the weight disadvantage, but that solid axle cripples the handling on the GT. I had this issue with my beloved Steeda Cobra. It would skip and bounce over any uneven surface on the road. On a smooth track the solid axle could relax...but on real public roads with ruts, holes, divits, etc that solid axle would be bouncing all over the place.

I'm not a "spec sheet driver" or magazine fanboy...just thought it was a fun test with a real race driver. It's all in fun. I'll drive the GT in the spring over at Summit Point and make my own, personal comparison.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by LYCAN

Motor Trend and Car & Driver have their "exceptions" as well. Each test is a case by case basis. However, I'm still not buying the argument that the solid axle mustangs are out-handling the IRS SS models the large percentage of the time. Yes, the Camaro has the weight disadvantage, but that solid axle cripples the handling on the GT. I had this issue with my beloved Steeda Cobra. It would skip and bounce over any uneven surface on the road. On a smooth track the solid axle could relax...but on real public roads with ruts, holes, divits, etc that solid axle would be bouncing all over the place.

I'm not a "spec sheet driver" or magazine fanboy...just thought it was a fun test with a real race driver. It's all in fun. I'll drive the GT in the spring over at Summit Point and make my own, personal comparison.

You just answered your own question. The solid axle's major disadvantages are far less apparent on a race track, where all the handling tests are done. If they did these handling tests on the street the spec sheets wouldn't be listing "cornering g" and "figure 8" they'd be listing "resistance to tree" and "curb launch height." Besides that, I assume your steeda was an sn95 or new edge body style. . . the current generation handles wwwwaaaaayyy better.

[LYCAN]

Mine was a 96. I loved that car, but the weak spot was the transmission on those. Actually it was with most of the early 4.6 SVT Cobras. They weren't using the Tremec transmission like the old five-ohhs. For the time it was a monster way better than the 1LE Camaros.

Yes, on the track the solid axle would be fine for the Stangs because the surface is smooth and there really isn't much that will make them hop. The lighter weight then comes into play. But yeah, on real public roads they would be hopping around pretty bad with a stiff suspension and 411 HP on tap. The IRS on the Camaro would shine here because it is setup to allow the suspension to swallow more of the road imperfections. But the weight does create some unwanted body roll. On the track the Camaro's IRS really isn't in its element. But the weight hurts it. I am going to do some Autocross and some track days with my old Corvette Club in the spring. They invited me to bring my Camaro. They told me to expect that its a pig on the track compared to the Vettes...and I know. I'm going to to the Pfadt coul-overs and sway bars to counter the body roll.

Anyhoo..good conversation.

[SWAT 79]

It's a outstanding SRA with the mustang, and a so so irs with the camaro. That's just the way it is man, the mustang is a better handling car.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by LYCAN

I am always suspicious about magazine articles where testers drive around on city streets or a drag strip and then come back with their own results. I don't think that I am buying the argument that the Mustangs are out-shining the Camaros in the handling department. Seat of the pants meter doesn't count here...I'm talking about track results. Yes, the Camaro is a pig on the track I have been told, but again it's a $34K car.

You will find that in most controlled tests, the GTs are outhandling the SS by some small margin. GT500 vs. SS = Fugget about it .

Note to self: Top gear is for entertainment purposes only......

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to_2011_page_8

1 2:45.9 MOSLER MT900S LL3 11/08
2 2:48.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 ACR LL3 11/08
3 2:49.8 MOSLER PHOTON LL5 2/11
4 2:49.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 LL3 2/10
5 2:51.8 LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SUPERLEGGERA LL5 2/11
6 2:52.3 KTM X-BOW LLU 2/10
7 2:53.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 (Z07) LL3 2/11
8 2:53.9 LAMBORGHINI MURCIÉLAGO LP670-4 SV LL5 2/10
9 2:54.6 FERRARI 430 SCUDERIA LL5 11/08
10 2:55.6 NISSAN GT-R LL3 11/08
11 2:55.9 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LL4 2/11
12 2:57.4 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 10/07
13 2:57.5 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S LL4 2/11
14 2:57.6 ARIEL ATOM 3 LLU 2/10
15 2:58.0 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG LL4 2/11
16 2:58.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 8/07
17 2:58.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE GRAND SPORT LL2 2/10
18 2:59.0 NISSAN GT-R (all-season tires) LL3 11/08
19 2:59.5 AUDI R8 5.2 FSI LL4 2/10
20 3:00.7 FORD GT LL4 11/06
21 3:01.1 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 11/06
22 3:01.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/08
23 3:01.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 11/06
24 3:01.8 PORSCHE 911 GT3 LL3 8/07
25 3:03.6 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 8/07
26 3:03.8 PORSCHE BOXSTER SPYDER LL3 2/11
27 3:04.0 CADILLAC CTS-V SEDAN LL2 11/08
28 3:04.0 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 2/11
29 3:04.2 CADILLAC CTS-V COUPE LL3 2/11
30 3:04.5 LOTUS EXIGE S LL3 8/07
31 3:05.4 BMW M3 COUPE LL2 2/10
32 3:05.4 LEXUS IS F LL2 2/11
33 3:05.6 BMW M3 COUPE LL2 11/08
34 3:05.6 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA S LL3 2/10
35 3:05.8 PORSCHE CAYMAN S LL3 2/10
36 3:05.8 PORSCHE 911 TURBO LL4 8/07
37 3:05.9 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 8/07
38 3:06.4 JAGUAR XKR LL3 2/10
39 3:06.5 MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG LL2 11/08
40 3:06.5 MERCEDES-BENZ E63 AMG LL3 2/11
41 3:07.4 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 2/10
42 3:08.3 LOTUS EVORA LL3 2/11
43 3:08.4 AUDI TTS LL2 2/10
44 3:08.6 FORD MUSTANG GT 5.0 LL2 2/11
45 3:08.9 JAGUAR XFR LL2 2/11
46 3:09.2 LOTUS ELISE LL2 11/06
47 3:09.3 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/06
48 3:09.5 PORSCHE CAYMAN S LL2 11/06
49 3:09.5 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS LL2 2/10
50 3:10.0 BMW M6 LL3 11/06
51 3:10.5 BMW 335i COUPE LL2 8/07
52 3:10.6 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION SE LL2 2/11
53 3:10.8 AUDI S4 LL2 2/10
54 3:11.0 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 11/06
55 3:11.0 AUDI RS4 LL3 8/07
56 3:11.7 BMW Z4 M COUPE LL2 8/07
57 3:12.0 NISSAN NISMO 370Z LL2 2/10
58 3:12.5 NISSAN 350Z TRACK LL1 11/06
59 3:12.5 FORD MUSTANG V-6 LL1 2/11
60 3:13.0 CHEVROLET COBALT SS LL1 11/08
61 3:13.3 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 2/10
62 3:13.3 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION MR LL2 11/08
63 3:13.5 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION IX MR LL1 11/06
64 3:13.7 BMW 135i COUPE LL2 11/08
65 3:13.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 R-SPEC LL1 2/11
66 3:13.8 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI SEDAN LL2 2/11
67 3:14.0 LEXUS IS F LL2 11/08
68 3:14.6 AUDI S5 LL2 11/08
69 3:14.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 LL1 2/10
70 3:15.0 HONDA S2000 CR LL2 11/08
71 3:15.7 PONTIAC SOLSTICE GXP LL1 8/07
72 3:16.0 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 8/07
73 3:16.2 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 2/10
74 3:16.3 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 LL2 11/08
75 3:16.5 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX SEDAN LL1 2/11
76 3:16.6 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX HATCHBACK LL1 2/10
77 3:16.6 LOTUS ELISE SC LL2 11/08
78 3:16.7 MAZDA RX-8 R3 LL2 2/11
79 3:17.1 MINI JOHN COOPER WORKS LL1 2/10
80 3:17.5 INFINITI G37 COUPE SPORT LL2 11/08
81 3:18.2 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 11/06
82 3:19.0 MAZDA RX-8 LL1 11/06
83 3:19.0 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI HATCHBACK LL2 11/08
84 3:19.3 VOLKSWAGEN GTI MkVI LL2 2/10
85 3:20.6 CHEVROLET COBALT SS SUPERCHARGED LL1 11/06
86 3:20.8 DODGE CALIBER SRT4 LL1 11/08
87 3:20.9 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 11/06
88 3:21.8 VOLKSWAGEN R32 LL2 11/08
89 3:22.9 MINI COOPER S LL1 8/07
90 3:24.8 HONDA CIVIC Si MUGEN LL2 11/08
91 3:25.1 VOLKSWAGEN GTI MkV LL1 11/06
92 3:26.5 HONDA CIVIC Si COUPE LL1 11/06
93 3:26.6 VOLVO C30 VERSION 2.0 LL1 11/08
94 3:29.3 MAZDA MX-5 MIATA LL1 11/06