VMAX BLACK ICE IS HERE, IS THIS RIGHT?

[rtcat600man]

Here are a bunch of photos of mine when I installed my ported intake manifold.

The photos will show before and after of what the manifolds look like with the gasket. How much is removed. Another photo shows before and after on the heads too. Also a shot of how I stacked the gaskets with the ice-olator.

I used some rags stuffed in the holes to help keep debris from going into the passage ways. I used a shop vac the entire time I was grinding. Then shop vac'd the holes to the point I sucked up a couple rags too.

[LIM3]

Originally Posted by rtcat600man

Here are a bunch of photos of mine when I installed my ported intake manifold.

The photos will show before and after of what the manifolds look like with the gasket. How much is removed. Another photo shows before and after on the heads too. Also a shot of how I stacked the gaskets with the ice-olator.

I used some rags stuffed in the holes to help keep debris from going into the passage ways. I used a shop vac the entire time I was grinding. Then shop vac'd the holes to the point I sucked up a couple rags too.

Thanks for the info. I think I might tackle this if I can get the black ico soon

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by rtcat600man

I didn't know Sears carried so many differant styles.

http://www.sears.com/search=torque+w...e=CAT_REC_PRED

I know, and all of them have mixed reviews . . . the one you linked to was one of the ones I was looking at but why did you choose the one in inch-lbs vs. foot-lbs?

Did you know that Autozone.com will send you a tool for a deposit and then refund your deposit when you send it back? You can do it in person at a store or over their website, I was thinking about that option for the torque wrench but with something you want calibrated precisely I doubt one they've been loaning out will be reliable. Looks like I'm headed to Sears!

Thanks!

Chad

[rtcat600man]

The link takes you to everything Sears offered. Just so happened the first on is the one you see with inch pounds.

For sure you want ft. lbs........

Knowing I have had mine for over 15 years and use it often. I would certainly look to buy one. ......

Good Luck, and anytime you need a question answered just keep asking...........

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by rtcat600man

The link takes you to everything Sears offered. Just so happened the first on is the one you see with inch pounds.

For sure you want ft. lbs........

Knowing I have had mine for over 15 years and use it often. I would certainly look to buy one. ......

Good Luck, and anytime you need a question answered just keep asking...........

I went and bought one at Harbor Freight, it had good reviews and came with a lifetime warranty. I'm going to test the calibration before using it, any recommendation to try to make sure it's calibrated right before using it?

[rtcat600man]

Originally Posted by ChadG

I went and bought one at Harbor Freight, it had good reviews and came with a lifetime warranty. I'm going to test the calibration before using it, any recommendation to try to make sure it's calibrated right before using it?

Calibration...........hmmm. Not sure I know how to test that.

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by rtcat600man

Calibration...........hmmm. Not sure I know how to test that.

I was just going to maybe use a 15 pound dumbell and put it 1 ft away from the center with the socket on a lug nut or something to see if it holds the weight. Then I was going to up it to 20 lbs and see if it spins freely. I can't think of anything convenient that weighs precisely 17 and 19 pounds, respectively . . .

[kjkjr27]

Is a shop vac absolutely needed lol I have a household vac, don't feel like going out and buying a shop vac just to port match the heads.

[rtcat600man]

Good excuse to go buy a small shop vac. I use mine every time I wash my Camaro (at least once a week) to vacuum out the interior.

[kjkjr27]

Hmm maybe I'll go with this one?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_215726-20097...uum&facetInfo=

[hapisok]

What I liked about mace's product is that it is port matched vs gasket matched. What this means is you don't have to do any port matching unless you have a ported IM. And like others stated, the sharp edges left by not smoothing the transitions between IM to insulator to block, hurts the flow of air by disrupting the airflow and reducing velocity which is extremely importante with DI motors.

[SC2150]

Originally Posted by hapisok

What I liked about mace's product is that it is port matched vs gasket matched. What this means is you don't have to do any port matching unless you have a ported IM. And like others stated, the sharp edges left by not smoothing the transitions between IM to insulator to block, hurts the flow of air by disrupting the airflow and reducing velocity which is extremely importante with DI motors.

Must be why all the dyno tests show 20 RWHP and 25 plus RWTQ with just bolting the VMax iceolator on w/no port matching......

[hapisok]

we both know that 20/25 are generous numbers...just saying. i didn't see numbers like that until i had full bolt ons (CAI, LT's w/high flow cats/tune, & ported TB...still didn't break 300) with the addition of E85. stock i was sitting around 250...with ALL of that i got into the 280's, almost 290. i do agree that there is a HUGE loss when it comes to heat soak. but to say that the addition of your "ICE-o-lator" increases HP/TQ by that much is complete BS. the increase comes from an engine that is heat soaked by helping to reduce increased temps to the intake air temp...its not as simple as a guaranteed bolt on 20/25 HP/TQ adder.

and we've been through this discussion before. fluid dynamics and air flow are KEY when it comes to maintaining velocity in these DI engines. if you can claim 20/25 without port matching, then why not give your customers the maximum return on their investment by maintaing proper air flow by port matching vs gasket matching? your "claims" would be even higher if you were to smooth out those transitions giving you the edge (pun intended) over your competitor (MACE).

there were tests done, i was a part of those tests and the results weren't all that different. just a shift in where the HP/TQ was made. looking at the two products from a mechanical/physical viewpoint, REVeX held up well under the test. honestly, i thought they took the lazy road when it came to making the template for their product where MACE did it right. and by doing it right, i mean it is more efficient. im certain somebody with a flowworks background would be able to produce a .gif that shows the difference in flow in the transition from the IM to the isolator to the block between the REVeX and MACE insulators.

i suppose it doesn't really matter at this point, I'm just offering some feedback from the studies i've done that are completely unbiased. im not a vendor and i tested both products back to back purely as an enthusiast. IG: i spent MY money on dyno time with no kick back or compensation from either party.

you also claimed that there was no difference in the thickness of the insulator...but there are plenty of formulas on the internets from leading mechanics and engineers that show there is a DIRECT relationship between the runner length and the RPM range at which power is made...AKA the power band. a longer runner length shifts the power band to the left...this is essentially what the thicker insulator does and puts the power band more toward the mid range. also a prime example of engines that run with variable intake runner lengths. because the manufactures know that there is a power to be made from longer runner lengths (lower RPMS) in addition to having shorter runner lengths (higher RPMS).

so to simply say that the gain is in 20/25...is not exactly all the facts laid out on the table. you may see the gain, but that gain comes in the form of skewed representation of the facts. and in comparison to the competitors (where the MACE was tested at 25mm and the Black Ice 3/8"(?)) the math for the additional runner length in comparison to the power band shift was right on point with the mathematics provided by other professional engine builders.

one thing that you also fail to mention with that claim is PEAK gains. peak gains aren't even that close. maybe at some point through out the power band there was a difference that significant...but definitely not at PEAK HP/TQ and that is the number the majority of the folks on here are looking at. here is a listing of "independent testing" taken directly from REVextreme's website:

Other independent testing showed similar gains on a dyno:
+10.5 RWHP / +21.5 RWT at 2500
+11 RWHP / +19.5 RWT at 3000
+9.5 RWHP / +15 RWT at 3500
+20.5 RWHP / +27.5 RWT at 4000
+13.5 RWHP / +16 RWHP at 4500
+13 RWHP / +13.5 RWT at 5000
+11 RWHP / +11 RWT at 5500
+11 RWHP / +9 RWT at 6000
+4 RWHP / +3.5 RWT at 6500
+1 RWHP / +2 RWT at at 6800

a gain of 21 RWT at 2500 RPM can simply be an error on behalf of the dyno operator. i will agree that it DOES help with airflow especially down low. that is where i personally felt the increase from both products. but i believe your claims are a bit misleading as some of the amplifying facts are left out from the rest of the data when you straight up try and claim 20/25 HP/TQ. honestly i could careless. i have no beef with you, just that i think if you are going to rep a product, you should do it without misleading your audience. there IS science behind how all of this works. and if you can make your product better...why not take the extra steps to do so?

just my .02

[CamaroLS]

Thanks for the info!!