Minimum HP for 200mph

[Carnaut]

Minimum HP for 180-190+mph? Interesting discussions here guys. (Co-efficiency vs. HP vs. type of Car, etc.)

But does someone know the drag co-efficiencies for older Camaros (& Firebirds/TA's) vs. new(er) ones?

(someone please tell me - I need to know...)

Here's my situation: My beloved, expensive 4-year project car (71 Camaro) was feloniously stolen & illegally sold by the San Diego Police 19 years ago (Yes, an american Police Dept. actually committed Felony Grand Theft Auto and then covered it up {overt & harrowing police Crimes are not uncommon in San Diego, Ca.) and I'm confident they may finally settle with me - so I finally hope go out and buy something else and start a new project car. But this is what I'm trying to achieve: {apart from knowing drag co-eff's with various older/newer GM cars...}...

I need recommendations of some fairly inexpensive used older/newer car(s) with good potential; but in attempts to eventually closely match the Autobahn's Ferarris, Porsches, & Lambos, etc. here in Europe where I live now. I was quite successful at this very same contest in Southern California 19 years ago with my 71 'super' Camaro - I was liked, & disliked, by the super-rich 'oil-familys' youngsters who could not out-drive me nor catch me in my Camaro while they drove their super-expensive, impressive exotic Italian iron back then.

But now that 19 years has past I'm not sure if another 70's car has much overall potential against today's exotics. The last time I saw US muscle ripping the Autobahn [here] was when it was popular for a motor-head to have a Banks twin-turbo setup in a 1980's-1990 Trans Am or Firebird (because they supposedly had a favourable drag co-eff's., & Corvette-like handling potential especially with common, easy mods & VR/ZR tyre's). Now, the only American 'muscle'-car I see here is the Corvette - but they are somewhat common, expensive [here], and they only have two seats.

Okay GM brothers, & seasoned enthusiasts: What fairly inexpensive car(s) now can be a good start for me here if I intend to use a power-plant based on the common older iron chevy 400 sb (with mods of course)? Also, can someone please tell me if it is easily possible to use the cheaper-available older iron blocks with the (newer?) cars? And, what about the existing trannys & rear-ends in post-1990's GM cars if one is using 450-550 ft.lbs.tq? - or do I now need to shovel a bunch 'o money for a newer, much more expensive engine casting/block (& tranny?) to easily fit into post-'90's cars? Also, 19 years ago I was just getting ready to graduate from Carburetion to more practical fuel-injection exploration, but due to the trauma & unspeakably painful theft of my pride & joy (Camaro) long ago I never owned another muscle car since. Is EFI nowadays pretty easy & relatively inexpensive to run on my (envisioned) 400sb with low-profile mini-blower (or even without the blower)? Should I stick with a Carb if/when using any (cheaper) under-the-hood Blower?

Also, does anyone know of any similar GM enthusiasts like myself (or informal/formal GM {not-exclusively Corvette} Clubs/Organisations), but here in Europe that I could also meet & talk to?

Lastly for the moment, can an 'experienced' person please constructively critique my envisioned motor-build idea(?); In my next 'sports' car I'd like to easily duplicate/surpass the hp/tq. of a lightly modified 454, but using a 400sb. Yes, I know of the 400's siamese design, & it's 5.65 rod length/rod-angle, etc., however, I built many 400's in the past and I was much happier with them than their 383(350) or 377(350) counter-parts mainly for the increase in inches making up for everything else as long as I didn't rev over 6,000-6500. But(?), are there now (cheap(er) 400sb mods (5.70-6.00" rods, forged crank, etc.) that will make the 400 {or a mild-stroker 420(400)} very usable, reliable & streetable like a 350 or 454, but with the 400sb using (with, or without) a smaller B&M, Weiand, or other 4-71(144cu?) blower? Keep in mind I don't want to spend a ton 'o money just on my engine. In the past I had around 450lbs/tq. for well under $2,000.USD, and I could have simply added a mini-blower (after reducing my compression/r) for another $1,500.USD {used} back then. I think I want to try something similar now here - but I'm wide open for suggestions.

Oh: every gas-station [here] has 98 Octane, and I can also very easily buy newer-generation LL-100 AV 'blue' fuel for the same price (or cheaper). Here, high-compression or high-boost are practical. So; being that gas quality and speed limits are not a problem here - what would you do with a somewhat limited budget over a 2-year period? Thanks!

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by LostInMoscow

You can get a lot of cars to go 200 MPH like has been said here. However, to get one to go that fast safely and with stability is another story. You need downforce in the right places and a car that is going to be able to handle all the extra stresses, forces and heat that will be generated. You can shred even the best tires real fast at those speeds if the suspension isn't right. Even if you do all the aerodynamics and powered systems correctly, you're butt will be puckering if the car isn't engineered from the start for those kind of speeds.

Look at the huge differences between a Brabus Mercedes and even the AMG Benzes. They put a hell of a lot of modifications on those cars to get them to go fast safely with good stability. There is a reason that the Germans like that 155 MPH governor. It keeps them from having to deal with these types of issues.

i agree. my 96 turbo 4v can certainly get close. i have yet to run it over 165ish because its no joke on the streets at that speed. it was accelerating like hell as i passed that speed. it was enough. never been close to 200mph. never will be.

[lil_red_v6]

ask a street biker how do they hit 200 with as lil as they do hp. theres your answere

[KeepItGreasey]

Originally Posted by lil_red_v6

ask a street biker how do they hit 200 with as lil as they do hp. theres your answere

exactly. go with a motorcycle... fewer HP... higher speeds... better mpg

[hot ss]

my zx10 ninja did the 1/4 mile at 145 mph. with 136 hp. my zx14 had 203 hp, and ill bet you a twinkie no bike will beat 200 mph stock. things start getting real hard above 150.
especially braking, heh.
and you cannot trust a bikes speedo, either. my gps said i was going 5-7% slower than the bike said.

[hot ss]

also look at nascar weights and speeds.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by hot ss

also look at nascar weights and speeds.

Weight helps determine how long it will take to reach your top speed, not what that speed is. Adding 3000 lbs isn't going to slow you down, it will just take an awful lot longer to get up to speed.

Sport bikes can achieve their speeds because they are so bloody small. A stock car is nearly the same size as a regular car, with a cross section of around 20 square feet. A sport bike is probably close to 1/3 of that.

[hot ss]

sport bikes are horribly un-aerodynamic. and wieght is important, as there are so many texas miles....
not to mention the torture an engine takes to go wot for the duration of time needed to hit 200.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by hot ss

sport bikes are horribly un-aerodynamic. and wieght is important, as there are so many texas miles....
not to mention the torture an engine takes to go wot for the duration of time needed to hit 200.

Race cars aren't that aerodynamic either, they trade drag for downforce.

You're right that sport bikes are not aerodynamic (the Cd is around .5). But since a normal car is around a .35 yet 3x the area a sport bike would have a CdA of ~3 while a car would be ~7. Pretty big difference, despite the less aerodynamic shape.

I acknowledged the role weight has in acceleration, but speed in and of itself is practically independent of weight (it plays a small role in figuring rolling resistance). So yes, if you have a limited track (ultimately, all tracks are limited ... even Bonneville) then weight could prevent you from achieving what the car is capable of.

Durability ... you can build an engine to run WOT all day long if you want to. In fact, the LSA ran WOT for something like 11 days during testing.

[spd2612]

I can tell you my 2011 ss2 rs 6m will run, but at 130 it starts to get very light in the front end. For me to make it stable at speeds above that I know I would have to make sacrifices and add down force which would obviously lower the top speed of what it could run, If I was dumb enough too.
So the question is, what would you sacrifice?
I have been 6.36 192 mph in a pro mod designed to be quick and there is no comparison as to what you can do to a street car

[BigDan]

I remember an old issue of Super Chevy or Chevy Hi performance from the late 90's and the formula back then was a 3rd gen F body and a 500hp 502cid crate motor could get you there but you needed GTS headlight covers

Any other Chevy die hard's remember that issue?

[2ndgenz28]

The hand of God is not easy to surpass with raw hp. seen a 85 3rd gen drag car 2000+ and he couldnt break through while other boxy cars had no problem. now on a long track it didnt take but a special built wing for a 3rd gen to bust 200

[ShnOmac]

205.7 MPH and 1000 HP at the Texas mile..... I would like to see what they could do at the salt flats!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137176




EDIT: I did not realize this was a necro thread....

[hypurone]

Originally Posted by hot ss

my zx10 ninja did the 1/4 mile at 145 mph. with 136 hp. my zx14 had 203 hp, and ill bet you a twinkie no bike will beat 200 mph stock. things start getting real hard above 150.
especially braking, heh.
and you cannot trust a bikes speedo, either. my gps said i was going 5-7% slower than the bike said.

Does the ZX14 doing 196 at Maxton count as close enough?

Excerpt from a SportRider mag awhile back:
Well stock a zx14 is not going over the 186 limiter ..But at Maxton a zx14 with 24 miles in the clock went 196.1 breaking the stock production record....Some say it wasn't stock because they swapped the 17 tooth front sprocket for a 18 tooth ..This gear change fools the limiter so you can go faster than the 186.. This gear change while not stock is ok by Maxton rules for production class...Brocks own zx14 broke 200 with a piped and P/C zx14, thin oil and trick wheel bearings....But the motor was untouched...No Busa or zx12 with just a pipe/ P/C has run 200... No Busa or zx12 that i know of has gone 196.1 with just a gear change ..