mod Ls3 and timing chains - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

2SSRS@Gen5diy · 03-21-2009, 12:16 PM

Hi to all, My car is going to be built next week

and i am thinking of all the mod's to do right a way, As some of you are, So i found this info from the other sites i post on,
Guys you need to read up on timing chains breaking on LS3 with mod's this is some links,

by the way 7 pg on this link

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...n-failure.html

And this

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-pictures.html

And this one

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-the-c5-r.html

As i see it be very careful on cam-head mods and UD pulleys, and find a good shop to do the work, good lock to all, hate to see anybody have to replace 16 valves or more....

Camaro blessed

*CamaroSpike23* · 03-21-2009, 06:49 PM

oh holy crap. WTF?

Quote:

It has come to our attention that there are IWIS timing chains on the market being advertised as the C5-R timing chain, yet being sold at 1/3rd the price. Some are even being sold under the Katech part number. These chains ARE NOT the highly tested and proven C5-R timing chain. I spoke with IWIS in Germany today and confirmed this. They do confirm that the cheaper chain is simply an aftermarket chain and not the race chain that Katech has been buying for 10 years. This aftermarket chain has different pins and different plates than the C5-R race chain

thats some BS right there. some lawsuits need to be in order

ADM PERFORMANCE · 03-21-2009, 08:49 PM

We have a fix,The only problem is that it will cost you about $2300.But you will gain 50-100rwhp

If you have been around ls engines as long as I have you pretty much know what the cause is and how it can be delt with.

There are alot more things out there that need be worried about besides just timing chain failures.#1 Like how to pic the right company to work on your car

A few pics for you guys to digest -

2007-2010 cam tensioner design and problem on stock ls engine -

http://i39.tinypic.com/25rmfpe.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/9as3z4.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2afa061.jpg

*CamaroSpike23* · 03-22-2009, 07:57 AM

themossman · 04-11-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

We have a fix,The only problem is that it will cost you about $2300.But you will gain 50-100rwhp

If you have been around ls engines as long as I have you pretty much know what the cause is and how it can be delt with.

There are alot more things out there that need be worried about besides just timing chain failures.#1 Like how to pic the right company to work on your car

A few pics for you guys to digest -

2007-2010 cam tensioner design and problem on stock ls engine -

http://i39.tinypic.com/25rmfpe.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/9as3z4.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2afa061.jpg

So what's your fix? And Vengeance did the install on that C6...is there reason to not recommend them?

TIA

ADM PERFORMANCE · 04-11-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themossman

So what's your fix? And Vengeance did the install on that C6...is there reason to not recommend them?

TIA

Let us put a cam in and we will make it last,been there done that.Ou combination of parts as held up to some of the most extreme hp attainable from a ls engine.

BTW what c6?

All my pics were taken at my shop on cars that I took apart,I am in Texas and am not sure were vengence is.

spd98 · 04-11-2009, 09:20 PM

there was the same issue on the ls2. But there are literally 1000's running mods on stock chains. The bottom line is that some may break but most will be fine. Either way a chain is cheap so do it when you do the cam.

themossman · 04-11-2009, 10:21 PM

The links from the OP that were of the C6 vette with the broken timing chain were what I was referring to. in that thread, there was detail regarding the car and the shop that tuned it...your response about 'picking the right company' seemed to indicate that you didn't agree with what was done on that C6. Sorry if I read too much into the statement.

I'm still curious about what your fix is...I understand a 'combination' of parts...but what's the root cause of the failures? Your pictures seem to indicate that you're pointing to the chain tensioner...that if the spring pops out it puts too much slack in the chain?

I'm not savvy on engines, not even sort of...I'm just really curious. Thanks in advance.

spd98 · 04-13-2009, 11:47 PM

I would be willing to be that Vengance has built more cars than you, that lasted. Ever heard of GMMG? Same guy's.

everyone has issues from time to time. It's how they handle them.

JICPerformance · 04-15-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd98

I would be willing to be that Vengance has built more cars than you, that lasted. Ever heard of GMMG? Same guy's.

everyone has issues from time to time. It's how they handle them.

Not really the same guys. One guy from GMMG is now at Vengeance if I am not misunderstood from my readings. GMMG is still in business as a separate company.

Who let this SPD98 guy in here anyways

The stock LS2 chain is a pretty strong piece. I've thrown some heavy miles on one with a high lift cam and Patriot dual springs with no problems.

Ron@Vengeance · 07-07-2009, 08:52 PM

We are actually the same guys

... Mike our owner was the lead technician at GMMG. I worked aside Mike handling specialty aspects of the builds and our lead tech Buddy Daniell was an engine tech at GMMG as well.. The three of us left and Matt has hired two new guys to continue his business. Mike/myself/Buddy have been building modifying LSX engines since their inception.

In regard to the C6 above, the timing chain failure was determined to be a faulty chain by a metalurgist. We have built over 970 cars in three years at Vengeance with ONE timing chain failure, this being the case

Rest assured we can build ANYTHING you could imagine AND make it reliable!!!!

azvren · 09-15-2010, 09:13 AM

Im planning on doing my cam swap in the next few weeks, can i use the stock sprockets and tensioner with the c5r timing chain?

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03-21-2009, 12:16 PM	#1
2SSRS@Gen5diy Drives: 2014 Z/28 #82+#192, 18ZLE 66Nova Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: By the lake in AZ Posts: 15,719 View My Garage	mod Ls3 and timing chains Hi to all, My car is going to be built next week and i am thinking of all the mod's to do right a way, As some of you are, So i found this info from the other sites i post on, Guys you need to read up on timing chains breaking on LS3 with mod's this is some links, by the way 7 pg on this link http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...n-failure.html And this http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-pictures.html And this one http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-the-c5-r.html As i see it be very careful on cam-head mods and UD pulleys, and find a good shop to do the work, good lock to all, hate to see anybody have to replace 16 valves or more.... Camaro blessed

03-21-2009, 08:49 PM	#3
ADM PERFORMANCE Drives: Anything I want Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: DfW - Texas Posts: 5,405	We have a fix,The only problem is that it will cost you about $2300.But you will gain 50-100rwhp If you have been around ls engines as long as I have you pretty much know what the cause is and how it can be delt with. There are alot more things out there that need be worried about besides just timing chain failures.#1 Like how to pic the right company to work on your car A few pics for you guys to digest - 2007-2010 cam tensioner design and problem on stock ls engine - http://i39.tinypic.com/25rmfpe.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/9as3z4.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/2afa061.jpg

04-11-2009, 09:20 PM	#7
spd98 Drives: had a goat Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: atlanta, ga Posts: 351	there was the same issue on the ls2. But there are literally 1000's running mods on stock chains. The bottom line is that some may break but most will be fine. Either way a chain is cheap so do it when you do the cam.

04-11-2009, 10:21 PM	#8
themossman Apprehensive Optimist Drives: '10 SS/RS SIM Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: JAX Posts: 1,383	The links from the OP that were of the C6 vette with the broken timing chain were what I was referring to. in that thread, there was detail regarding the car and the shop that tuned it...your response about 'picking the right company' seemed to indicate that you didn't agree with what was done on that C6. Sorry if I read too much into the statement. I'm still curious about what your fix is...I understand a 'combination' of parts...but what's the root cause of the failures? Your pictures seem to indicate that you're pointing to the chain tensioner...that if the spring pops out it puts too much slack in the chain? I'm not savvy on engines, not even sort of...I'm just really curious. Thanks in advance.

04-13-2009, 11:47 PM	#9
spd98 Drives: had a goat Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: atlanta, ga Posts: 351	I would be willing to be that Vengance has built more cars than you, that lasted. Ever heard of GMMG? Same guy's. everyone has issues from time to time. It's how they handle them.

07-07-2009, 08:52 PM	#11
Ron@Vengeance Drives: 2013 Artic White GrandSport Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: In the shop Posts: 339	We are actually the same guys ... Mike our owner was the lead technician at GMMG. I worked aside Mike handling specialty aspects of the builds and our lead tech Buddy Daniell was an engine tech at GMMG as well.. The three of us left and Matt has hired two new guys to continue his business. Mike/myself/Buddy have been building modifying LSX engines since their inception. In regard to the C6 above, the timing chain failure was determined to be a faulty chain by a metalurgist. We have built over 970 cars in three years at Vengeance with ONE timing chain failure, this being the case Rest assured we can build ANYTHING you could imagine AND make it reliable!!!!

09-15-2010, 09:13 AM	#12
azvren Drives: Camaro 2SS RS IBM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Odessa, Tx Posts: 258	Im planning on doing my cam swap in the next few weeks, can i use the stock sprockets and tensioner with the c5r timing chain?