catch can importance?

[tonyko1]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

If GM had included a $125 catch can on every 5th Gen Camaros built through the end of the 2011 calender year is would have cost them just over $29 million just for the part alone.

Sir, I respect your opinion a whole bunch, as with others too, but, got to say, GM wouldn't pay for it anymore than they are paying for a catylitic convertor, the cost is born back to the consumer, as are seatbelts, airbags, etc, etc, etc.

I am all okay for a catch-can, I bought one and my friend, an independent mechanic who is broke and "rich" in the same week with work and lack of, wouldn't install an RX can I did buy. And he has owned 6 or 7 Camaros, but not a Gen 5 yet. He did advise a CAI though, so everything is relative.

Hate being a stick in the mud, but I feel it my duty.

[Angrybird 12]

Believe what you want but I figured $125 for a Catchcan will pay for itself in maintenance cost in the long run. I have emptied mine twice and I would have hated to have had what came out of the can to have gotten sucked into my intake. It is cheap insurance....

[willhe64]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

Sir, I respect your opinion a whole bunch, as with others too, but, got to say, GM wouldn't pay for it anymore than they are paying for a catylitic convertor, the cost is born back to the consumer, as are seatbelts, airbags, etc, etc, etc.

I am all okay for a catch-can, I bought one and my friend, an independent mechanic who is broke and "rich" in the same week with work and lack of, wouldn't install an RX can I did buy. And he has owned 6 or 7 Camaros, but not a Gen 5 yet. He did advise a CAI though, so everything is relative.

Hate being a stick in the mud, but I feel it my duty.

And who exactly are you? You're expert source is a backyard mechanic Buddy who can't find steady work?

Why don't you come back with some facts and evidence to refute SC2150's claims instead of your high handed adamant and unbacked statements.

[tonyko1]

Originally Posted by willhe64

And who exactly are you? You're expert source is a backyard mechanic Buddy who can't find steady work?

Why don't you come back with some facts and evidence to refute SC2150's claims instead of your high handed adamant and unbacked statements.

No sir, my "backyard mechanic" is no backyard nothing. He owns his own shop and lives in a small town in Eastern Oregon that has no VESTED interest in anything, or else he would have installed the said RX catch can in my car, at my expense. But he refused, and is a BIG Camaro fan, owned plenty.

So ask yourself this...........Who is more credible, one who is selling the catch-cans for profit $$$ or one who could install one for $$ but yet turns it down? What is his or my motive, other than what we think we to be true, as opossd to.....well you tell me?

As for facts, not having facts for something does NOT prove...it aint proof. And the photos of engines without catch cans, if indeed that what that they are, is meaningless. Is that "facts", well you decide.

And by the way, do you sell catch-cans, or know someone who does, or have one yourself, what is your motive and YOUR PROOF, ha.

Keep huffing and puffing, whatever. Aint my money nor time. I have been writing this while watching a movie, so my interest is God's truth...

Whatever, who cares? It is your money do as you want.

Thank you.

[Blues45th]

Agreed!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

Keep huffing and puffing, whatever. Aint my money nor time. I have been writing this while watching a movie, so my interest is God's truth...

Whatever, who cares? It is your money do as you want.

Thank you.

So your taking the advice from someone that has 0 experience with 5th gens, catch cans, oil injestion, and what the catch can can do. Over pictures and testimonies from people that HAVE used them and installed them and KNOW FOR A FACT what they can do.
You say that the pictures and testimonies are not proof of anything yet we are expected to believe you instead.
We have no proof you ever bought a catch can or even asked a mechanic of any kind to install it, (something that anyone with the smallest bit of mechanical knowledge can do) or even if he exists.
Then you write this BS about not caring and do what you want with your own money. If that is so then quit saying this crap with no proof anything you say is true.
PS don't bring God into this.

[SC2150]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

No sir, my "backyard mechanic" is no backyard nothing. He owns his own shop and lives in a small town in Eastern Oregon that has no VESTED interest in anything, or else he would have installed the said RX catch can in my car, at my expense. But he refused, and is a BIG Camaro fan, owned plenty.

So ask yourself this...........Who is more credible, one who is selling the catch-cans for profit $$$ or one who could install one for $$ but yet turns it down? What is his or my motive, other than what we think we to be true, as opossd to.....well you tell me?

As for facts, not having facts for something does NOT prove...it aint proof. And the photos of engines without catch cans, if indeed that what that they are, is meaningless. Is that "facts", well you decide.

And by the way, do you sell catch-cans, or know someone who does, or have one yourself, what is your motive and YOUR PROOF, ha.

Keep huffing and puffing, whatever. Aint my money nor time. I have been writing this while watching a movie, so my interest is God's truth...

Whatever, who cares? It is your money do as you want.

Thank you.

As I have asked time and again, you interfere with every thread on the subject on a campaign to convince those that care about the best for their car to ignore all of this......you seem to have this as your #1 goal here....mislead and do a diservice for all the members that DO want to learn, etc. Again, every time I ask for you to post any supporting facts, all you do is attack with no data to support your opinion. I provide the technical data, pictures, my qualifications, and the invitation for anyone to ask detailed questions and I will provide any more data anyone cound want.

Yes, I manufacture one of the most effective oil separating crancase evac systems avaialable for street driven vehicles, but if greed was the motivation I woul not be offering such a robustly designed solution, I would be pushing a cheap china/ebay gimmick that looks good but is ineffective. 95% of the others on the market as shown are just empty cans with 2 fittings attached. Much more profitable than all the R&D and revisions involved in developing the product to where it is now.

Also I would like to point out that I dont make a cent endorsing the other cans on the market that we have tested and proven to do a good job.....they are direct competitors and this cost me sales when someone PM's and ask's if they should replace X can with the RX and I tell them its a great can, no need to spend the $.

You ignore my qualifications, and you talk of a "class action suite"'? For what?

So, lets go through each benefit from a properly functioning properly installed oil separating catchcan system.

Does oil ingestion cause detonation resulting in the PCM pulling timing and producing less power and fuel economy?

Yes, ask any tuner that has had to batttle with this or read the GM TSB's on the subject.....several other mebers have posted them on this forum.

Does oil ingestion cause harmful deposit build up and contribute to increased oil consumption?

Yes, ask any engine builder....and look for the posts where some have torn down to do other mods and what the engine looks like inside. The buiuld up on the piston rings and ringlands causes them to stick and not move freely so they do not create as good of a seal with the cylinder wall (GM TSB). The fix is to dissasemble the engine, remove the pistons, manually clean each ring land, install new rings, hone the cylinders, and reassemble.

Does oil burn just as well as gasoline?

No, try for yourself. Take and pour a teaspoon of the motor oil you use onto a saucer and try and light it on fire....it wont burn unless you can get the heat up to the point of vaporizing it...and then it is a dark sooty smoke of incomplete combustion. You ONLY want air & fuel in the combustion chamber, any amount of oil mist reduces the amount of energy released per explosive event producing less power, and causing some of the fuel to pass through unburnt. This reduces the fuel economy as well as the power.

Are the deposits left by the oil ingestion harmfull to the engines life and performance and efficiancy?

Yes, If looking at the carbon alone, it is extremely abrasive and as small particles break loose some get rapped between the cylinder walls and pistons resulting in the vertical scouring in the piston pictures I posted. (Yes, we have motors in every state of dissasembly and reassembly here at all times...ask anyone who has actually visited the shop and seen in person).

The build up on the valves reduces the volumetric efficiency of the port/valve/piston top/combustion chamber as it builds up resulting in the motor not working as efficiently as designed. The piston tops are designed specifically for a certain burn pattern during the combustion proccess for peak efficiancy, the carbon buld up on them alters this and thus less power/MPG. The combustion chamber and the quench areas to transfer heat away evenly are negatively affected. (If not GM would not have you coming in every 12-15k miles for TB cleaning and upper induction cleanings at a price many times a good catchcan can be had for.

So, instead of throwing misinformation and insults around point out in each of these paragraphs where any is not accurate and the supporting data to back up your opinion.

It's fine if YOU do not want to run one...its a free country, but to keep this campaign of misinformation to confuse those that DO want the best for their baby is a diservice to all.

[Dyk-NO]

please enlighten me with the difference between a single valve and a dual valve catch can.

[SC2150]

Single valve has only one flow controlling checkvalve as only the intake manifold vacuum is used as the OEM system does. The can just installs inline between the crankcase evac barb and the IM vac barb so all emmissions remain intact and it just separates the oil mist/vapor from the rest of the suspended combustion byproducts.

The dual valve is used when you are turbo or centri supercharged as the IM becomes pressurized the primary valve will sense this and close preventing the boost from pressurizing the crankcase and then the secondary valve will open and use the inlet side suction of the head unit to continue the evacuation and then when you fall out of boost the valves return to the NA mode.


The dual valve can be used with a Maggie/ZR1 style top mount as well for an added evac source when driven hard, but is not neccesary for most top mounts. It would connect slightly differently.

For big cube builds or any with boost much over 10-12# the Monster can is the standard dual valve on steroids with over twice the capacity to deal with the added blow-by these motors experiance.

If a turbo or centri build did not have the correct checkvalving every time you would go into boost the crankcase would also get pressurized. Most FI kits come with a checkvalve to put inline to prevent this, but then when in boost the crankcase pressure will follow the path of least resistance, which is back flowing through the cleanside and bring the oil laden vapors through the main air filter/intake tube and that presents another issue.

Ask more questions.....especially any pertaining to a specific application or how oil ingestion affects the motor you have. Fleet owners of light trucks and vans buy these just for the fuel savings which avg's 1-3 MPG with the elimination of the detonation that puts these motors into the low octaine timing tables.

[willhe64]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

No sir, my "backyard mechanic" is no backyard nothing. He owns his own shop and lives in a small town in Eastern Oregon that has no VESTED interest in anything, or else he would have installed the said RX catch can in my car, at my expense. But he refused, and is a BIG Camaro fan, owned plenty.

So ask yourself this...........Who is more credible, one who is selling the catch-cans for profit $$$ or one who could install one for $$ but yet turns it down? What is his or my motive, other than what we think we to be true, as opossd to.....well you tell me?

As for facts, not having facts for something does NOT prove...it aint proof. And the photos of engines without catch cans, if indeed that what that they are, is meaningless. Is that "facts", well you decide.

And by the way, do you sell catch-cans, or know someone who does, or have one yourself, what is your motive and YOUR PROOF, ha.

Keep huffing and puffing, whatever. Aint my money nor time. I have been writing this while watching a movie, so my interest is God's truth...

Whatever, who cares? It is your money do as you want.

Thank you.

Your Mechanic has no idea what he is talking about. He probably refused because he did not no how to install it. Can't find the valve cover.

I've also been building and racing cars for 25 years. Dozens of racing engines for myself and others. My shop is next door to an engine rebuilders. I've seen hundreds of examples of the problems caused by oil ingestion.

Fact. You need to evacuate excess gasses from the crankcase. You can blow out seals, have poor ring seating and a host of other issues. In a race motor we do this into the headers. In a street car this is illegal for pollution reasons.

OIL INGESTION IS AN UNWANTED SIDE EFFECT OF CYCLING THESE GASES BACK INTO THE COMBUSTION PROCESS.

And the results of this are not beneficial to your engine, they are harmful. For all the reasons Tracey stated.

There are others on here who would rather run some seafoam through the motor every once in a while. This is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Quintessential example of a pound of cure rather than an ounce of prevention. Loosening all the harmful deposits and having them pass through the motor.

I have a catch can and I've seen the results. What a simple solution to an unwanted problem. I don't even know why this argument keeps popping up.

[Bradrulz]

To bad Camaro5 doesn't have an option to give a user a thumbs up/down. Tonyko1 would definitely be receiving a lot of thumbs down.

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Originally Posted by SC2150

As I have asked time and again, you interfere with every thread on the subject on a campaign to convince those that care about the best for their car to ignore all of this......you seem to have this as your #1 goal here....mislead and do a diservice for all the members that DO want to learn, etc. Again, every time I ask for you to post any supporting facts, all you do is attack with no data to support your opinion. I provide the technical data, pictures, my qualifications, and the invitation for anyone to ask detailed questions and I will provide any more data anyone cound want.

Yes, I manufacture one of the most effective oil separating crancase evac systems avaialable for street driven vehicles, but if greed was the motivation I woul not be offering such a robustly designed solution, I would be pushing a cheap china/ebay gimmick that looks good but is ineffective. 95% of the others on the market as shown are just empty cans with 2 fittings attached. Much more profitable than all the R&D and revisions involved in developing the product to where it is now.

Also I would like to point out that I dont make a cent endorsing the other cans on the market that we have tested and proven to do a good job.....they are direct competitors and this cost me sales when someone PM's and ask's if they should replace X can with the RX and I tell them its a great can, no need to spend the $.

You ignore my qualifications, and you talk of a "class action suite"'? For what?

So, lets go through each benefit from a properly functioning properly installed oil separating catchcan system.

Does oil ingestion cause detonation resulting in the PCM pulling timing and producing less power and fuel economy?

Yes, ask any tuner that has had to batttle with this or read the GM TSB's on the subject.....several other mebers have posted them on this forum.

Does oil ingestion cause harmful deposit build up and contribute to increased oil consumption?

Yes, ask any engine builder....and look for the posts where some have torn down to do other mods and what the engine looks like inside. The buiuld up on the piston rings and ringlands causes them to stick and not move freely so they do not create as good of a seal with the cylinder wall (GM TSB). The fix is to dissasemble the engine, remove the pistons, manually clean each ring land, install new rings, hone the cylinders, and reassemble.

Does oil burn just as well as gasoline?

No, try for yourself. Take and pour a teaspoon of the motor oil you use onto a saucer and try and light it on fire....it wont burn unless you can get the heat up to the point of vaporizing it...and then it is a dark sooty smoke of incomplete combustion. You ONLY want air & fuel in the combustion chamber, any amount of oil mist reduces the amount of energy released per explosive event producing less power, and causing some of the fuel to pass through unburnt. This reduces the fuel economy as well as the power.

Are the deposits left by the oil ingestion harmfull to the engines life and performance and efficiancy?

Yes, If looking at the carbon alone, it is extremely abrasive and as small particles break loose some get rapped between the cylinder walls and pistons resulting in the vertical scouring in the piston pictures I posted. (Yes, we have motors in every state of dissasembly and reassembly here at all times...ask anyone who has actually visited the shop and seen in person).

The build up on the valves reduces the volumetric efficiency of the port/valve/piston top/combustion chamber as it builds up resulting in the motor not working as efficiently as designed. The piston tops are designed specifically for a certain burn pattern during the combustion proccess for peak efficiancy, the carbon buld up on them alters this and thus less power/MPG. The combustion chamber and the quench areas to transfer heat away evenly are negatively affected. (If not GM would not have you coming in every 12-15k miles for TB cleaning and upper induction cleanings at a price many times a good catchcan can be had for.

So, instead of throwing misinformation and insults around point out in each of these paragraphs where any is not accurate and the supporting data to back up your opinion.

It's fine if YOU do not want to run one...its a free country, but to keep this campaign of misinformation to confuse those that DO want the best for their baby is a diservice to all.

Tracy I gave up on the dude. He has no fraking clue what he is talking about and does open his mouth on every catch can thread.

[SC2150]

At least you do! The Mike Norris is also a very good can we endorse.

[tonyko1]

Yeah well whatever. I have now gotten 9 "private msgs" telling me how I am right, from people who have bought them and been disappointed, of a vendor on this site, guess which one, who won't allow him to return it and states he is a one-man operation, etc. etc.

As for the criticisms, go ahead, I care not. And for using God in any subject matter, HE is my God as much as anyone's, don't need you to tell me how to interact with Him.

Lastly, my mechanic is one of the most honest, hardest working people I know, mechanic not withstanding. He works on many out of warranty Vettes and cars of all kinds. He told me he would install it for me if I wanted, but he really didn't want to promise it would do anything. He stated the L99 was engineered to burn off the oil and if you think about it......if you go 3000+ miles and have half a ounce of oil in the can, think what that was each time it happened, it vaporized as it burned off. And who needs a catchcan that is a tight fit and then a pain to undo and clean.

To review:

1. It is your money, fine, do as you please.

2. For a V8, not needed for those who don't race or will trade-in < 100k miles.

3. My "vested" interest is I don't like people intimidating others with misguided information. It is akin to intellectual bullying, and I won't let that go.

4. Who has a vested interest in this, a person selling you one or not? This is one of my pet peeves, right up there with OnStar and to a lesser degree, Sirius. But this one I aint letting go of.

5. There is no # 5.

Bye now.