07-16-2017, 01:34 AM | #15 |
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I just leased a Challenger Hellcat with M6 trans, lol!! During a test drive I noticed that 1, the clutch in the HC is super heavy...2, it seemed a bit difficult to drive the HC fast...3, compared to the ZL1 when I first test drove it, the HC did not seem as fast.
Now let me explain. 1, the clutch. I spoke with my best friend and he said that of course the clutch would be heavy in a 707 hp car. Which I agree. I haven't driven a stick shift in months since I got rid of my 15 GT and 10 SS. So my left leg might just be out of practice. 2, it might be that I was being a bit cautious. I got into the car knowing it's power and I was trying to hold back. When I got the ZL1 I was not afraid to let her rip. So it might have been all in my head. 3, the HC I test drove was a used one whereas I'm getting a brand new one. I used the red key, but perhaps the hp was dialed down. Or perhaps driving the ZL1 all this time made the HC feel not as powerful as I thought it should feel. Maybe I'm used to higher hp by now. But no matter how I slice it, it was still a fun car to whip around. So with that said, I think the LT4 engine is just as strong as the HC engine in that it can take the same abuse. But I do think that larger blower on the HC would give the ZL1 a hard time. Just listening to the supercharger whine in both cars, the HC is much more prominent. So with bolt-ons and stock displacement and keeping the stock blowers on both engines, I think the HC will overwhelm the ZL1. Start throwing aftermarket blowers on both cars and it is anyone's game. |
07-16-2017, 12:13 PM | #16 |
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i was thinking the same thus the whole if you tune it,.... warranty is done. While this is usually the case with any manufacturer it seems GM has really been vocal about this.
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07-17-2017, 06:27 AM | #17 | |
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07-17-2017, 07:22 AM | #18 | ||
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07-17-2017, 07:57 AM | #19 | |
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If I wanted just a drag car, I'd just get something way cheaper and throw a blower on it. The value in this car is that it does everything very well. |
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07-17-2017, 08:44 AM | #20 |
Drives: 2014 M6 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2012
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I believe the OP original ask was ZL1 engine potential...versus Hemi/Hellcat engine.
Correct??
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07-17-2017, 01:03 PM | #21 |
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Correct. The Hellcat will be cheaper to mod with the larger blower. As for how much the stock long block can handle? It will probably be close as we've seen both 1,000 rwhp Z06's and Hellcats on the stock Long block.
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07-17-2017, 01:05 PM | #22 | |
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07-17-2017, 01:11 PM | #23 |
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Stock the Hellcat has the advantage. Boltons and the Hellcat has the advantage. But they both to me seem to be very strong engines. So once you start heavily modding both engines (turbos, blowers, E85, cams, heads, etc) I think the advantage would switch over to the ZL1 due to the sheer weight and size of the Hellcat. At a certain point that heft will be too much. This is all of course talking straight line performance and HP/TQ numbers.
Now I do think for what they offer, both cars are pretty much in the same boat as far as value. Dodge is making a straight line killer and Chevy is making an all around star. The ZL1 seems to have more tech while the HC seems to have more stuff dedicated to the quarter mile. The HC is without a doubt more comfy and a lot easier to get in and out of. But the ZL1 is a lot easier to drive fast. They both demand attention but the ZL1 gets more because the 6th Gen is a new body style. So taking all aspects into account, they're equal. Just engine and power and drag racing and potential, I'd say it depends on how far you plan to mod each. |
07-17-2017, 08:47 PM | #24 | |
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And as an update, I drove the HC this morning and decided to drive it a little aggressively. Man this thing really IS fast, lol!! |
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07-18-2017, 02:39 AM | #25 |
All of this is really good dialogue but has anybody asked why GM chose the LT4? From an engineering perspective why was the LT4 design chosen as a successor to the LSA/LS9? I understand the corvette conversation, but they could have taken a more serious approach to both the car and the engine because they never did seem to be a perfect match. The Corvette chassis doesn't really tolerate the LT4 at the limits, nor does the LT4 present a sufficient limit for the fabled corvette. I wanted the C7 to be a much more impressive performer than the C6. Not a little better, world's better. The comparison of the Gen 5/6 ZL1s are the kind of differences I expected. 200 lbs lighter, +80hp, +117 ft lb torque, .7 second difference is the best times or an average of .5 second difference in 1/4, and an almost 12 second gap on the ring. That's a significant difference. The LT4 for the Camaro is sufficient and wholly appropriate, but for the King of Corvettes the LT4 is quite the let down.
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07-18-2017, 04:57 AM | #26 |
Drives: 2014 M6 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2012
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Your question nails the real issue here with GMs top of the line powertrain. I am not a GM designer engineer, but the consensus has been packaging and direct fuel injection on why the LT4 was motor of choice for the fabled Corvette flagship Z06/ZO7.
The LS9 in comparison made 638 hp 9 years ago with none of the heating/packaging issues in Corvette/LT4. It also has a slightly higher HP ceiling when modded at a cheaper cost. The LS9 hand built forged bottom with exotic moterials in the valve train was Not cost effective for mass production. That void was filled by the LSA. I will stop here. I believe GM has worked all the cooling issues out in the LT4 in this new ZL1 bone stock. Corvette owners are not happy with this at all.
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07-18-2017, 11:43 AM | #27 | |
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07-18-2017, 01:18 PM | #28 |
Drives: 2014 M6 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2012
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I agree with you HAMMERHEAD in the A10 on just a tire, which is impressive! The fact that the Hellcat is doing this 500-600 lbs heavier shows how strong the bigger blower is. I wouldn't be surprised if their 6.2L engine heads have bigger intake/exhaust ports to push more air/fuel also.
I'd rather be in a ZL1, but this is what you have to deal with when you run one at the track. The Ford boys aren't playing either slapping turbos on their 5.0s. Again, much rather be in a ZL1 lol
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14' Crystal Red Tintcoat ZL1 6M, 9.62 at 150.75 MPH 12' Opulent Blue Metallic CTS-V Sedan, 10.690 at 129.60 MPH - SOLD 06' LeMans Blue Metallic Z06, 11.726 at 127.80 MPH Motor - SOLD. 96' Impala SS LTx, 11.397 at 118.10 MPH Motor, 1st stage 10.526 at 127.46 MPH |
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