GMPP headers, exhaust, CAI add no POWER

[1camaro70]

I have seen the fear, and that is why I have asked the question in that manner, we go on modding and around the corner is GM waiting to void our warranty....unless you use their stuff. We go in for normal service and they plug in to their main computer not a scan tool, I have not taken to track or attempted 0-60 runs, car is fine, no abuse (yet), so keep it stock and abuse it and keep warranty or mod it to enjoy exhaust sound and void warranty.

[DDustiNN]

And the never-ending two-sided warranty battle rages on...

I wonder if we will ever get a definitive answer on this...?

[Nova65]

I think the easy way to put it: GM will warrenty the parts they sell (as GMPP) and not the parts made by someone else (non-GMPP). Would you fix someone's house and warrenty the work if they started switching out the stuff you put in?

[ElAntonius]

The reason the battle rages on is because the reality is that adding aftermarket carries a RISK of voiding your warranty.

Small things will probably just get fixed, sure...something like a tune, that touches the whole powertrain, is pretty much a guaranteed void.

Ultimately...unless you are prepared to lay YOUR money on the line for repairing your car, stick to stock or GMPP parts.

[1camaro70]

Again, if the dyno's of unmodified L99's show wildly fluctuating A/F ratios, which it not healthy for engine, cats, fuel milage or emmissions, BUT since it is stock covered by warranty, yet if you tune and get proper 13:1 A/F ratio, you have voided warranty?

[CamaroSpike23]

if you run an aftermarket, non-GM exhaust. your exhaust portion of your warranty is void. your powertrain warranty is still in effect however. same goes for CAI. people that are worrying about the MAF getting messed up with a CAI, whats to mess up? you still have air flowing thru the stock MAF. as long as the CAI isnt allowing air in around/past the MAF, it will still give accurate readings. now, if you are careless and over oil your air filter and burn your MAF up, that might not be covered.

the GMPP parts were created for the enthusiast who wanted to increase the power of their Camaro with GM approved (and warrantied) parts.

if you are still worried about your warranty and still want to modify your car, take your car to your dealership and ask them if/what parts of your warranty will be voided by specific modifications

[nova]

For anybody that has a question of what will void a warranty, I'd encourage you to research the MAGNUSON MOSS WARRANTY ACT

Specifically there is a provision

(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if -

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

This has been taken through the courts to mean a few things.

1. The warranty of ANY product cannot be conditioned on using ONLY parts provided by a specific provider other than those given for free by the warrantor.

An example, Hoover can't void your vacuum cleaner warranty because you used Joe's Vacuum Cleaner bags instead of Hoover brand unless Hoover gives you those bags for free.

2. What can void a PORTION of the warranty is if the part actually Caused the damage you're claiming under the warranty. The damage cause is something the warrantor has to prove though.

Back to the vacuum example, if Joe's Vacuum Bags shread and clog up the vacuum motor, burning it up, Hoover can refuse to cover the damage under the warranty if they can prove that it was Joes Vacuum Bags that caused the problem. You're remedy, if any was available would be to use whatever guarantee Joe's Vacuum Bags gives.

So lets expand this out to a car. Lets say you do a few mods and get a tune bumping your HP up quite a bit, beyond the design limits of the transmission even.

If your console lid breaks off, GM has to cover that because there's no way they can prove that the engine mods caused the damage to the console.

If however you shred your transmission, GM probably wouldn't have to cover that because it wouldn't be hard to prove that all the mods you did pushed the engine past the transmission design envelope, causing the damage you are now claiming...

[JDBeck23]

well put nova...

Now we just need to get them to DRINK the coolaid!

[ElAntonius]

Problem with Magnuson-Moss is that ... honestly ... most of us don't have the time and money to fight over it in court. With something like a tune, it becomes very dangerous since a mysteriously snapped something or other could always be blamed on the tune.

But yes, if you put non-spec tires on and your steering wheel falls off, MM covers that.

[GEN-IV]

Originally Posted by SicSix6

If you order a car from GM, they warrant it.
If you order performance parts from GM and put them in that GM car yourself.... GM will not warrant the parts or any of the systems affected by the new parts.
If you order parts from GM and have GM install them in the GM vehicle with a warranty... It will mean that they might not warrant the parts affected, however they will warrant the parts they put in as well as their labor.

Reading the fine print in the GMPP catalog, it looks like they do warrant the customer installed GMPP parts and the systems affected provided the installation was not the cause of the failure.

[HaveBlue]

That's a great post on the MMA nova. But understand that that applies to a replacement part. A belt, an alternator filter etc, MMA came about because the OE's wanted to say you could ONLY USE AC Delco parts or (Insert your OE here). This was done to protect free enterprise and price competition in the huge replacement parts industry. So under MMA, an OE cannot say you can only use AC Delco, or Gates or Fram or Motorcraft to maintain your warranty.

MMA does not cover "off road only parts" that alter the factory emissions OR the emission parts. If a part doesn't alter emissions output but doesn't have an EGR valve (for example) that the original did, fail, not legal.
You can not relocate the catalytic converters, period. I'm not saying it makes sense, it's the Federal Government after all. That's why Cat-Backs are so popular. No emissions stuff gets relocated.

Certified Emissions Legal parts are covered under MMA.

Concerning GMPP headers. They are Borla's. They have a GM part number. But they are the same headers that Borla will sell you UNLESS it's a contracted part were GMPP pays for the R&D and tolling to have an exclusive. Usually the volume of the part is so low that they don't do that. So the Aftermarket company can sell the same part under their brand (usually at a lower price due to less overhead nd GM's internal markups. Edelbrock make cylinder heads and manifolds sold with GMPP logos and numbers, MSD sells GMPP distributors, Auto Meter gauges etc. GMPP is separate from the OE brands. They are a stand alone and have to make money. They want a piece of the aftermarket business. They liscense the logos to aftermarket companies (for a 9% fee).

Doc's post is dead on.

"If you want to mod your car, then UNDERSTAND that you take on the responsibility of your OWN ACTIONS and it's not anybody else's "fault" if something you do breaks something. That's the way it goes; learn from it and do it better so it doesn't break the next time. If you aren't willing to accept that responsibility, then DON'T MESS WITH IT. Pure and simple."

Enjoy your car modify it if you want. But your are accountable for what you do.

[1camaro70]

if you attach a new part like an exhaust what happens to the exhaust...nothing, except the hot gasses excape quicker and sound nice......Why does this happen......the engine is now happier, providing us with more power!!!!!!!!! but opps, we didn't tell the engine to stress itself more, it followed the laws of physics and was happy to give us more power, now does GM get upset that their unmodified engine is giving us more power, and stressing it more than their design???????????????????????? Yes they are happy only if its a GMPP part. So same reasoning, if you run the engine at 95 deg./ 90% humidity, it doesn't create as much power, or what if you live in Denver, don't drive at 5000 ft. it could affect performance, why we can not optimise timing and A/F ratio (thru Tune) when their computers and sensors can not do the job.

It's not about warranty, it's common sense, GM is producing great cars that we have noticed have unanswerable variances, Scott and irpq11 as examples, and 90% of us that are fine with performance, but we want to know why some of the Cars do not perform. What if they TUNE scott's car to NEW calibrations, once they find out what is wrong, will that work for other cars that seem just fine, or does scott's (as an example) have an authorized tune that we don't get, or want. Will they offer a recall? Will they change out computers (no way) will they have computer changes if we add GMPP parts, which HAVE to affect computer and A/F ratio's. Note that we have not seen the majority of GMPP parts, are they showing check engine codes like some of the other CAI's and headers? There has to be changes made to computer settings with any modification, you are improving efficiency, more HP and torque, again look at A/F ratio's on stock dyno's of cars, the computer and sensors don't seem to be set correctly, unless poor performance was the GOAL.

[HaveBlue]

GM (and all oe's) are constantly revising tunes. That's why they have flash computers. That's why all the handheld tuners are internet updateable. I've seen databases go up 15 revisions in a 2 week period.
The first thing a dealer does when you bring your car in is plug it into the server to check for updates. Even if you only came in for an oil change. it's SOP.

As far as warranty's it honestly all comes down to money. GM doesn't want to pay for your mistakes or excess'.

If I built you an engine and then you re-tuned the EFI and detonated a piston, am I at fault?

[rodimus prime]

I would actually think the engine would be under less stress with headers. Hence the hp goes up. The motor isnt fighting as hard. Same with a underdrive pulley. Your just making the motor easier to operate itself.