10-23-2011, 04:11 PM | #1 |
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Question on my blown Richmond's for the experts
Well a couple weeks ago I blew up my Richmond 4.33's on my first launch of the day. They had about 4k miles and 5 passes on them. I tore the rear end out and broke it down to get ready to rebuild. Upon opening the case, I found all the teeth stripped off both gears, no surprise there. What I was surpised about was when I pulled the pinion out. I found that the bearing was not seated fully and the shims just loosely on the shaft. See pics.
My question is, could this have somehow happened from the gears going, or do you think it was an installation error possibly resulting in or contributing to the diff failure? It seems to me that this could not happen with the pinion gear installed and being held together under preload, and it may not have been fully installed at the time of assembly. It was done professionally by the way, by a reputable shop. |
10-23-2011, 04:31 PM | #2 |
Drives: 2010 IOM 1SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 557
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I think you got all the good outta that gearset!
With only seeing pics of the pinion gear its hard to determine for sure. Looks to me like the pinion nut loosened up. Normally when that happens you would hear a large increase in gear wine and some bearing noise. The gear cases in these cars are aluminum and nor really designed to handle alot of power or shock. It is very possible that due to the case flexing it allowed the pinion to climb a bit to high on the ring gear causing the damage you see. If the crush sleeve was compressed as a result of the carnage then the rear pinion bearing definately could have been pushed away from the gear head. Probably a combination of the above. I would not blame this on the gears. Although they have a bad name around here, Richmond makes a very strong set of ring and pinion gears. |
10-23-2011, 04:33 PM | #3 |
NOW CAMMED & SUPERCHARGED
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black w/ IOM Join Date: Oct 2008
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Posts: 2,336
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Richmond does not rate camaro gears for drag racing is what i have read. They may have some out now but i willing to bet these were not made for drag
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10-23-2011, 04:42 PM | #4 |
Drives: 2010 IOM 1SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 557
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Sharp, these are performance "Street Gears". That doesnt mean you can't race with them. I have the same type of gear in my 9". The difference is the size of the ring and pinion and the strength of the gear case. If you have a manual trans and you drag race, if you plan to launch the car hard and shift hard, this will be the outcome sooner or later with the stock gear case. No matter what gear is in there. Even if richmond made a "Pro Gear" for the camaro gear case this would happen sooner or later. Only difference being you would not be able to drive it on the street as the Pro Gears are not designed to hold up to the heat they will be subjected to on the street from continuous use.
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10-23-2011, 06:14 PM | #5 | |
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10-23-2011, 06:53 PM | #6 |
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Already had Jannetty's caps intalled. And I have an LPW cover ordered that's going on when I install the Lingenfelter 3.91's I have also ordered.
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10-23-2011, 07:11 PM | #7 | |
Drives: 2010 IOM 1SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 557
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Brad |
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10-23-2011, 07:25 PM | #8 |
I Wanna Go Faster!!
Drives: 2011 2SS Synergy Green M6 Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 3,323
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An M6 is going to destroy that rear differential with either power or traction......I'd save the money on the caps and gears and do a 9"
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10-23-2011, 08:37 PM | #9 |
Drives: 2010 IBM SS/RS/Stick Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Holler
Posts: 231
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To focus on the actual question rather than berating Richmond, the pinion bearing should be an interference fit with the pinion which means it's very difficult to separate. Once I used a set of used gears that had somehow lost that fit. I could slide the bearing on and off with my hand. My machinist told me to peen it and use red loctite. The eway the pinion sat, the pressed fit was more to keep from boogering up the pinion. Worked good for what I was doing.
But you need to ask youself a few questons. Did the gears whine after initial install? What could cause the bearing to move off its seat on a hard launch? It would be very difficult to not hear a problem with the gears if installed with the wrong pinion depth, albeit not impossible. Looking at the pinion, a clockwise rotation would push the ring gear towards the rear of the car and the pinion towards the front and causing the bearing to load against the race thereby pressing the bearing towards a more seated position. Counterclockwise and a loose pinion nut could theoretically separate the bearing but the inner portion of the bearing would have had to be braced against something in the rear, but I would expect to see markings that such a thing occurred. Do you see any markings to suggest this? Is the bearing race destroyed, moved, not quite right? To me looks like someone didn't press the bearing completely on and the crush sleeve wasn't properly set.
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10-23-2011, 08:58 PM | #10 | |
Drives: 2010 IOM 1SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
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10-24-2011, 12:13 PM | #11 |
Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mich
Posts: 4,482
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My bet would be on the case flexing, pinion pulled out of whack by the torque and case flexing... then destruction. I highly doubt it was put together like that. Likely just all is now out of whack because of the violent failure.
The fix for that is a 9" or 12 bolt, if you're going to continue launching with that much force. If it were me, I'd redo with new gears and not launch so hard for now... eventually put in a 12 bolt iron case when they become available. |
10-24-2011, 12:16 PM | #12 | |
knows 2 facts about ducks
Drives: ...and they're both wrong Join Date: Aug 2009
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This is Richmond's official word on the subject. Taken from this thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...58#post2816058
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10-24-2011, 08:00 PM | #13 | |||
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Bearing race is fine, just a lilttle scored from have bits of metal grinding against it. And yes it's my thought that it possibly wasn't installed correctly. Quote:
Yes, if I have another gear failure, I will likely be putting a 12 bolt in. Just don't have the funds right now to do a full diff replacement. |
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10-24-2011, 09:50 PM | #14 | |
Drives: 2010 IBM SS/RS/Stick Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Holler
Posts: 231
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Let's say the gears broke first, i think it's plausible for the pinion to be pulled to the rear of the car if broken pieces caused the pinion to bind and latch onto the ring gear momentarily. However it is difficult for me to fathom what kind of situation would prevent the bearing from following suit. Case flex seems reasonable but man, that has to be a lot of flex. I mean the race would have to flex as well and flex enough to hold the bearing in place while turning. As unreal as it seems, I think that may be the most reasonable explanation.
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