[08z51c6]

Originally Posted by pdoherty972

I hear Vette owners say this, but they never qualify it. In what way is the driving experience better? The Camaro is pulling great performance numbers, including handling, so exactly in what aspects is the Vette better? This sounds like nothing more than rationalization of paying 20k more than you needed to.

I gave up a C6 Z06 for a Camaro SS so I'm not rationalizing any thing. They are two different cars built for different purposes. Best thing to do is go drive a Vette and experience it first hand. Trying to explain it in typing won't get the point across.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by IOMike

A tune doesn't make a vehicle less reliable because it makes a few more HP. Knock sensors get desensitized, rpms go up (big factor there) and the transmission parameters get all jacked up (so many more pressure faster shifts, must be better tuners out there ).

Not quite sure what exactly you are saying, but adding HP without putting in better parts will in fact statistically make a powertrain less durable and less reliable. Just science.

Unless you think you can magically add HP without adding stress to the engine and driveline. Not sure how that could be possible.

Note also that I said statistically. Most people don't do to their engines what GM does in testing..............ever...............not even close. So you may never see a difference and probably not early enough where it matters.

[pdoherty972]

Originally Posted by 08z51c6

I gave up a C6 Z06 for a Camaro SS so I'm not rationalizing any thing. They are two different cars built for different purposes. Best thing to do is go drive a Vette and experience it first hand. Trying to explain it in typing won't get the point across.

I think you greatly exaggerate things. They're both cars and they're both for transporting people and/or things from one place to another. And in this case they're two cars with identical drive trains and nearly identical performance.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by pdoherty972

And in this case they're two cars with identical drive trains and nearly identical performance.

Not quite, the Corvette has a torque tube and a transaxle...

But I see your point.

[08z51c6]

Originally Posted by pdoherty972

I think you greatly exaggerate things. They're both cars and they're both for transporting people and/or things from one place to another. And in this case they're two cars with identical drive trains and nearly identical performance.

One is a sports car the other is a muscle car. Two different types of vehicles that drive differently. Using your logic that would make the Jeep Wrangler and the Jeep Grand Cherokee the same as they are both 4X4's.

Trust me the Corvette and Camaro don't drive the same even though they might have similar performance. Both are great cars and one couldn't go wrong with either one.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

guess you dont realize a z51 c7 is spinning 20s also.

Nope I didn't. Thanks.



Side note...I think people are forgetting the stingray hero time is like 11.3-11.4. We are still a half second behind that. From what ive seen they 60 ft even better and are 3-400lbs lighter.

The performance is not nearly identical.

I think the Camaro makes 5-10 more hp/tq but not nearly enough to make up for the weight etc.

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by pdoherty972

I hear Vette owners say this, but they never qualify it. In what way is the driving experience better? The Camaro is pulling great performance numbers, including handling, so exactly in what aspects is the Vette better? This sounds like nothing more than rationalization of paying 20k more than you needed to.

You know.. i used to think that i finally owned one. (Two so far)

Its a different driving experience, everything is different and not just acceleration, braking, handling etc. But that one should expect from the traditional 2 seater rwd front engine sportcar. Now i loathed the attention i got.. never got used to it. But a vette is a very special car and if you focus on the driving dynamics youll realize just how engaging it is.

Is ot worth it??? Sure! If you can afford it. And that is where the new camaro imo is so important.
Ive owned both and quite frankly i wouldnt feel like im missing out if i bought a camaro over a c7. (Well.. maybe a little)

This new car is very promising and bodes well for things to come.

[08z51c6]

Originally Posted by obzidian

You know.. i used to think that i finally owned one. (Two so far)

Its a different driving experience, everything is different and not just acceleration, braking, handling etc. But that one should expect from the traditional 2 seater rwd front engine sportcar. Now i loathed the attention i got.. never got used to it. But a vette is a very special car and if you focus on the driving dynamics youll realize just how engaging it is.

Is ot worth it??? Sure! If you can afford it. And that is where the new camaro imo is so important.
Ive owned both and quite frankly i wouldnt feel like im missing out if i bought a camaro over a c7. (Well.. maybe a little)

This new car is very promising and bodes well for things to come.

I've had three Vette's so far and each is special in its own way. Ironically the one I've kept is my C5. I shopped a C7 and thought the interior was too cramped. I sat in and drove the Camaro and fell in love. Th performance is close and the interior is much more roomy. Plus there is a 25K difference between the two. I picked the Camaro and couldn't be happier.

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by 08z51c6

I've had three Vette's so far and each is special in its own way. Ironically the one I've kept is my C5. I shopped a C7 and thought the interior was too cramped. I sat in and drove the Camaro and fell in love. Th performance is close and the interior is much more roomy. Plus there is a 25K difference between the two. I picked the Camaro and couldn't be happier.

I think, with this current camaro, might also do the same. The c7 is a sweet car and with a little cosmetic pieces can look down right mean.

But the price difference and the improvements of the 6th gen might hold some folks from forking over the premium and stick with the camaro.

You know GM did a good thing when my Ford Fanyboy friends are looking for anything to take away from the whooping the GT is getting right now!

[andrec10]

Originally Posted by 08z51c6

I've had three Vette's so far and each is special in its own way. Ironically the one I've kept is my C5. I shopped a C7 and thought the interior was too cramped. I sat in and drove the Camaro and fell in love. Th performance is close and the interior is much more roomy. Plus there is a 25K difference between the two. I picked the Camaro and couldn't be happier.

I just sold my c5 last month. The timing was right and was made an offer I could not refuse. I have driven the c7 plenty of times and just can't get comfortable in it. Drove the 16 2SS and loved it. Sold... Do i miss the vette...Yes, but I also wanted a car with a warranty.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 08z51c6

One is a sports car the other is a muscle car. Two different types of vehicles that drive differently. Using your logic that would make the Jeep Wrangler and the Jeep Grand Cherokee the same as they are both 4X4's.

Trust me the Corvette and Camaro don't drive the same even though they might have similar performance. Both are great cars and one couldn't go wrong with either one.

Do we want to have the discussion that the Camaro remains true to it's orginal heritage, that being a "Pony Car"? Or does this site view that as giving Ford too much credit for inventing it?

Although GM uses the term "Muscle Car" when referring to the Camaro in advertising, we are simply letting them get a way with it.

The "traditional" definition of Muscle Car was taking a plebian daily family car and simply dropping a big displacement, big HP engine under the hood. Very little was ever given to make a Nova, Chevelle or GTO handle at a race track that actually required you to turn.

The Camaro in it's most basic form is expected to handle very well, brake very well and perform VERY well. Not just 1/4 mile performance as what the traditional Muscle Car did, but all attributes of vehicle performance.

We let GM use the term, but the Camaro is not a Muscle Car any more than it is a Sports Car. It's just that there aren't any modern day Muscle Cars. The closest would be the Fiat products as they really don't do track duty well due to weight and frankly just not handling as well as a Mustang or Camaro. The Hellcat relishes the 1/4 mile, but a Z/28 will put it in the weeds if you have to turn or brake.

If you want to call the Camaro a Muscle Car today, you have to call the Corvette one as well. And as the Camaro (sadly) gets even closer to being a Sports Car, you won't be able to use "Muscle" much longer.

Annnnnnnd I'm not sure why this opinion will get everyone riled up, but it always seems to.

[JDP Sales]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Do we want to have the discussion that the Camaro remains true to it's orginal heritage, that being a "Pony Car"? Or does this site view that as giving Ford too much credit for inventing it?

Although GM uses the term "Muscle Car" when referring to the Camaro in advertising, we are simply letting them get a way with it.

The "traditional" definition of Muscle Car was taking a plebian daily family car and simply dropping a big displacement, big HP engine under the hood. Very little was ever given to make a Nova, Chevelle or GTO handle at a race track that actually required you to turn.

The Camaro in it's most basic form is expected to handle very well, brake very well and perform VERY well. Not just 1/4 mile performance as what the traditional Muscle Car did, but all attributes of vehicle performance.

We let GM use the term, but the Camaro is not a Muscle Car any more than it is a Sports Car. It's just that there aren't any modern day Muscle Cars. The closest would be the Fiat products as they really don't do track duty well due to weight and frankly just not handling as well as a Mustang or Camaro. The Hellcat relishes the 1/4 mile, but a Z/28 will put it in the weeds if you have to turn or brake.

If you want to call the Camaro a Muscle Car today, you have to call the Corvette one as well. And as the Camaro (sadly) gets even closer to being a Sports Car, you won't be able to use "Muscle" much longer.

Annnnnnnd I'm not sure why this opinion will get everyone riled up, but it always seems to.

Its a sports car now. Im with you. We'll keep calling them Muscle Cars cause of MERICA but it is absolutely up to snuff in the braking and handling department now. You'll hear most the magazines calling it a "true sports car" now also.

Jared Royce
888.308.6007

[GRAHL]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Do we want to have the discussion that the Camaro remains true to it's orginal heritage, that being a "Pony Car"? Or does this site view that as giving Ford too much credit for inventing it?

Although GM uses the term "Muscle Car" when referring to the Camaro in advertising, we are simply letting them get a way with it.

The "traditional" definition of Muscle Car was taking a plebian daily family car and simply dropping a big displacement, big HP engine under the hood. Very little was ever given to make a Nova, Chevelle or GTO handle at a race track that actually required you to turn.

The Camaro in it's most basic form is expected to handle very well, brake very well and perform VERY well. Not just 1/4 mile performance as what the traditional Muscle Car did, but all attributes of vehicle performance.

We let GM use the term, but the Camaro is not a Muscle Car any more than it is a Sports Car. It's just that there aren't any modern day Muscle Cars. The closest would be the Fiat products as they really don't do track duty well due to weight and frankly just not handling as well as a Mustang or Camaro. The Hellcat relishes the 1/4 mile, but a Z/28 will put it in the weeds if you have to turn or brake.

If you want to call the Camaro a Muscle Car today, you have to call the Corvette one as well. And as the Camaro (sadly) gets even closer to being a Sports Car, you won't be able to use "Muscle" much longer.

Annnnnnnd I'm not sure why this opinion will get everyone riled up, but it always seems to.

is that winky face suppose to hide your frustration that lead to your rant? At least you admit it's just your opinion. Books, calendars, Wikipedia, movies, the public in general, etc etc know the camaro is a muscle car. No need to attack GM. The camaro is a muscle car.

[BradfordCamaro]