Firearms Section

[2010CamaroOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Vroom_vroom

The trouble with a long gun for home defense is both hands are tied up. If some one breaks ink your home it's going to be a close quarter issue with the long gun, unless its a serbu shorty
I like to have a hand to block as you most likely will need to.

Thats why you have a sling that way if you have to go to handgun you can just drop the long gun and you are good to go,

[Vroom_vroom]

^^ now we are cookin!!!

[MrWray]

Originally Posted by Vroom_vroom

The trouble with a long gun for home defense is both hands are tied up. If some one breaks ink your home it's going to be a close quarter issue with the long gun, unless its a serbu shorty
I like to have a hand to block as you most likely will need to.

I used to do high speed low drag building entries, with an M4 most of the time " narcotic warrants", it actually doesnt take much time at all to transition from long gun to handgun. It just takes a little practice

[Bhobbs]

Do want...

[Dangeruss]

Headed to the gun show this weekend...feeling the need for a new weapon.

[AZ Charlie]

I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.

[Dangeruss]

Originally Posted by AZ Charlie

I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.

I would use this inside the home.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by AZ Charlie

I have been biting my lip on this but for those of you that purchased an AR for home defense INSIDE THE HOME is not an intelligent move. First - caliber has no kinetic energy - no stopping power. Their is better kinetic energy from a 9 over the 556, even with frang ammo. Second - unless you know exactly what is behind your target it is going right thru the person and into the next room, neighbor's house, etc. You will need multiple shots for each intruder with a 556 or a clean head shot which is not easy with a moving target. I hope this helps and am not wanting to offend anyone but it is just nonsense that someone says they are going to use an AR platform inside a home.

No kinetic energy? 5.56 fired at the close ranges associated with HD would be devastating on soft tissues. The bullet would tumble and fragment inside the body. The temporary cavity created would be much larger than that of a 9mm hollow point. The issue with 5.56 is at extended ranges where the velocity drops off below the point where it will tumble and fragment.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

No kinetic energy? 5.56 fired at the close ranges associated with HD would be devastating on soft tissues. The bullet would tumble and fragment inside the body. The temporary cavity created would be much larger than that of a 9mm hollow point. The issue with 5.56 is at extended ranges where the velocity drops off below the point where it will tumble and fragment.

That's why home defense should incorporate nothing less than a 30-06 and a 16" bayonet



All kidding aside, the idea of shooting through a wall or three and injuring or killing an innocent is a sobering thought. I'd prefer to rely on a loyal and powerful dog for protection in my home. Barring that my choice would be my P226 in 9mm as opposed to any rifle I have, as it is very reliable and very accurate and very easy to shoot.

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

A hand won't block much against those that break into your house with a crowbar or baseball bat.

On the other hand, pun intended, a free hand can more easily open a door, etc. I would have no illusions about becoming a ninja and parrying crowbar blows with my rifle while deftly maneuvering to bring it into play. If I see him and I have a pistol, I'm not allowing that to happen anyway. If an intruder has the drop on me, if he surprises me and I don't see him, I'm done no matter what. Instead I'd really like the dog to be chewing off his arms

[KeepItShut]

Originally Posted by Dangeruss

I would use this inside the home.

*drool*

I know you've posted it before but I don't get tired of looking at it!

[kalimus]

AR inside the home, non-AR... Can anyone point to anything that suggests an AR to be potentially more dangerous to your surroundings than a handgun? Because everything I read says otherwise. The only time I ever read about an AR being a worse choice for home defense is from personal opinions and Joe Biden's comrades.

I'm assuming everyone has seen this... probably a dozen times, and probably even somewhere in this thread?

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Sel..._FAQ/index.htm

I guess what I'm asking, Charlie and the others who think an AR is a bad idea in the home... do you have any source that says otherwise? Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers either, but I've never read it.

As far as the kinetic energy debate...

55gr bullet (3.6 grams-ish or .0036 kg)
Muzzle velocity about 3200 fps (about 975 meters/sec)

147gr (9.5 grams-ish or .0095 kg)
Muzzle velocity is about 1050 fps (320 m/s)

230gr bullet (15 grams-ish or .015 kg)
about 850 fps (about 260 m/s)

Kinetic energy is 1/2 mv2

So

1700 joules, 486 joules and 507 joules respectively.

Or if you would prefer, 1253 ft/lb 359 ft/lb and 373 ft/lb respectively.

In no way does any .223 have no kinetic energy, especially when compared to a handgun round. However, kinetic energy and penetration are not proportional, otherwise you'd be looking at some odd 48" ballistic gel penetration for .223, which is not the case at all. And I say 48" because the gel for those handgun rounds seems to be 12-14".

Anyway, nobody can argue with the math. But if you want to argue (if one wants to cal it that... discussing is just fine) interior wall penetration and wound penetration afterwards, I'd like to see a source. Again, not trying to be abrasive, but I've never read any different.

And Russ. Gimme your gun. I want one.

[Bhobbs]

Here it is in slow motion.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by kalimus

AR inside the home, non-AR... Can anyone point to anything that suggests an AR to be potentially more dangerous to your surroundings than a handgun? Because everything I read says otherwise. The only time I ever read about an AR being a worse choice for home defense is from personal opinions and Joe Biden's comrades.

I don't know about that, but I do know that one of the attractions of the AR is it's choice of multiple calibers. Assuming that the caliber is .223 and then making a statement that this is what an 'AR' is, is like saying all blue cars have V6 engines. I have a friend with an AR in .458. Mine is in 5.56. Obviously different animals.

But I do know that I disagree strongly with suggesting that a gun enthusiast who has a differing opinion than yours is a 'Joe Biden Comrade'. That would be the same thing as me replying to you with "you're a wannabe Operator". How does that advance the discussion?

[Mr pogo]