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Old 05-19-2008, 03:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AirGoya View Post
So from that would it be safe to assume that the DI V6 in the camaro could run low 5 secs to 60mph?
i was thinking this too... sure seems like it doesn't it airgoya.

That means the v8 will get into 4 seconds range... which will be awesome.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:34 PM   #16
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When the top dog Camaro will have 500+hp how can anyone be satisfied with
280-300 hp? Sorry, but thats how I feel.
The Camry's, Accords, Altimas, (family sedans) etc are approaching or already making 300hp. It would be sad to get beat at a red light by a V6 Camry or Accord in a new Camaro.
Or to be beat down by Mustang GT's.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:34 PM   #17
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I do believe that if the V6 Camaro is not priced at the same level as the Mustang V6, it wll never overtake Ford Mustang sales numbers period. I don't care how popular Transformer's makes the Camaro.. Parent's still have to pony up enough money to buy their 18 year old a new car. In the case for us older folks who are enthusiasts, most of us will not settle for a V6 Camaro, no matter what the performance numbers are. I'm quite sure the V8 Camaro will knock thhe socks off of the V6 Camaro anyday...It would be silly to make a V6 as fast as the V8 for many reasons.... I am hoping the base V8 Camaro can compete against the current base Corvette in numbers and that the top dog Camaro SS will smoke the pants off of the base Corvette on a track. Ultimately, if all the statements and hype about the new V6 Camaro are true, then the marketing team should make sure every single car magazine and even popular show's like Top Gear get their hands on one to compare with all its competitors in the same price range..


well, one thing to keep in mind is that for pricing, you have to add some to the price of a mustang to compare. as each year goes by, inflation takes its toll. i strongly agree that the v-8 model will blow away the v-6 model, but something to keep in mind is the fact that the proposed v-6 for the new camaro will be coming out with more hp than the v-8s of the past. with greater fuel economy to boot. hell, ill take a 300hp v-6 camaro over a 295hp v-8 mustang for 6k less anyday. again with the pricing, i can almost guarantee you that each camaro model will cost slightly more than its respective mustang counterparts. that being said, i can assure you it wont be that large of a difference, (talking 1-2k at most). but when you look at the performance you are getting for that extra little bit, its not even close. 300hp v6 vs 210hp v-6
priced close to each other. not a contest

and im actually hoping for a 4 banger camaro to come out, cus a lot of the kids out there whos parents will be buying them a new car, dont know how to handle 300hp. thats why 90% of peoples first car is a junker. and plus it will come down to what the parents decide to buy as well, if they dont want their child to have that kind of hp, they can always buy a ford.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:11 PM   #18
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Hmmm... after this weekend, I wouldn't argue with this kind of speculation...

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This is AWESOME news. We all know that the V6 versions of all the pony cars is what sets it's lifespan. If our V6 is that badass, then the Camaro may reign king on that stance alone.

Hell, the V6 convertible may be the best seller of all the models...that much peppy fun, economy AND topless? Rental car fleets and housewives unite to make 30k units alone.

I've been saying this all along. Taking into consideration the gas prices the V6 will be the best selling Camaro in the long run. As I've said before and as MerF agrees rental cars, young drivers and the cost concious will snap these 6V Verts & Coups in a heart beat!...And bless there little hearts, as this will build the foundation for the 5th Gens life span... Alowing us "V8 thunder hungry gear heads" to have our 500hp+ beast!
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:20 PM   #19
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I don't think Bob Lutz is full of sh**.

They are detuning precisely so the V6 won't be the best model in the lineup. Very simple economics of profit being much higher with a more expensive, optioned V8 model.


"In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car."

"Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy. "

But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.

“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.

“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”


SOURCE: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/86927553


By the way, the G8 GT (V8) gets 15 mpg city and 24 mpg hwy. Lutz says the V6 Camaro will get 17mpg/25mpg. Just like the G8, the V6's will rot on the lot, and the V8's will be sold out. 15/24 with 400hp or 17/25 with 260hp - no comparison.

s
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:23 PM   #20
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For me, I think one of the biggest determining factors is this...

Does the V8 require PREMIUM gas?
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicerguy View Post
For me, I think one of the biggest determining factors is this...

Does the V8 require PREMIUM gas?
You can use regular if you like, but it has been shown that the extra horsepower you get with premium, makes up for the extra cost because the car goes further on a gallon of gas. Google for more info...
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
I don't think Bob Lutz is full of sh**.

They are detuning precisely so the V6 won't be the best model in the lineup. Very simple economics of profit being much higher with a more expensive, optioned V8 model.


"In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car."

"Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy. "

But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.

“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.

“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”


SOURCE: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/86927553


By the way, the G8 GT (V8) gets 15 mpg city and 24 mpg hwy. Lutz says the V6 Camaro will get 17mpg/25mpg. Just like the G8, the V6's will rot on the lot, and the V8's will be sold out. 15/24 with 400hp or 17/25 with 260hp - no comparison.

s
The V6 will NOT be "260-ish" horsepower....... the non-DI'd 3.6 is rated at exactly 260 hp. Why on earth would GM go through the expense of detuning a DI'd engine to the levels of a non-DI'd engine?????

I do think the DI'd 3.6 will be detuned slightly. I'd place money that it will come in between 280-300, and not 260.

Lutz had his engines confused when he made that statement.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:39 PM   #23
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The V6 will NOT be "260-ish" horsepower....... the non-DI'd 3.6 is rated at exactly 260 hp. Why on earth would GM go through the expense of detuning a DI'd engine to the levels of a non-DI'd engine?????

I do think the DI'd 3.6 will be detuned slightly. I'd place money that it will come in between 280-300, and not 260.

Lutz had his engines confused when he made that statement.
His statement is:

“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times.”

If he's that confused, I don't think it's a good thing for GM. I don't believe that to be the case IMO.

b
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
I don't think Bob Lutz is full of sh**.

They are detuning precisely so the V6 won't be the best model in the lineup. Very simple economics of profit being much higher with a more expensive, optioned V8 model.


"In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car."
s
That isnt de-tuned its just not direct injected. I still think that the base engine will be the DI 3.6 without any de-tuning. It wont be even close to any other engines GM will be offering with the camaro so there wont be any problem convincing people that the V6 isnt "the best model".

V6: ~300 hp
base V8: atleast IMO ~380 hp

I dont think there will be any problem with the V6 taking away sales of the V8. The V6 is the base engine and should have the majority of the sales anyway.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:48 PM   #25
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That isnt de-tuned its just not direct injected.

You may want to read exactly what Maximum Bob said-

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/86927553

"Lutz confirmed to Automotive News that the V6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #26
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I am hoping the base V8 Camaro can compete against the current base Corvette in numbers and that the top dog Camaro SS will smoke the pants off of the base Corvette on a track.
Unless you are talking purely about hp, then you are likely to be disapointed. The corvette will weigh 500 lbs less than the base V8 Camaro, and probably 700lbs less than the top dog. That makes for a huge differance in acceleration, braking, and handling. The top Camaro will be a bit better on the track than the GT500, which tends to get beat by the base Corvette. Don't expect the top dog to be crushing vettes any time soon.

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I've seen a lot of comments on the forums from various people saying that if the V6 Camaro doesn't have a sticker price of under $XYZ then it's going to be DOA, or if the V6 version doesn't cost the same as a V6 Mustang then then Mustang will kill it, etc.

Now I'm beginning to think that the V6 Mustang is sort of not the competition. It seems like Chevrolet has conceded the low-end market and has set it's sights on a more upscale buyer. Maybe it's not really fair to compare the two cars anymore because they are not aimed at the same people.

Think more about appealing to the potential V8 Mustang buyer instead, or the buyer who wants a sporty coupe that is not interested in the V6 Mustang because of it's "rental car" quality/reputation, but doesn't want a V8 because of gas prices, or insurance...

I'm beginning to think that GM is trying to separate the Camaro from the Mustang to appeal to a wider audience and not fight for the same dollars from the same people.

This could get very interesting.
To counter, think about what we are expecting of the top V8: mind blowing performance at a price near the mustang GT500. Now, think about what we are expecting of the base V8: amazing performance at a price near the mustang GT. So you are saying that the V6 will buck this trend and offer good performance at a price somewhat above the V6 mustang?

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So from that would it be safe to assume that the DI V6 in the camaro could run low 5 secs to 60mph?
I would say that high 5's would be safer. Less than 7.0 to be really safe.

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Originally Posted by SGOS252382 View Post
When the top dog Camaro will have 500+hp how can anyone be satisfied with
280-300 hp? Sorry, but thats how I feel.
The Camry's, Accords, Altimas, (family sedans) etc are approaching or already making 300hp. It would be sad to get beat at a red light by a V6 Camry or Accord in a new Camaro.
Or to be beat down by Mustang GT's.
If all you've driven is 120 hp econobox's then the prospect of 260-300 hp is mind blowing. There are other selling points to the Camaro besides performance. And for the price of that 500+hp Camaro you could almost buy 2 of the V6's. With a Camaro making 260-300 hp, who needs a daily driver with 500 hp? A similar argument can be made with the base Corvette, Z06, and ZR1. Just playing devils advocate here. I want the base V8.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:22 PM   #27
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If all you've driven is 120 hp econobox's then the prospect of 260-300 hp is mind blowing. There are other selling points to the Camaro besides performance. And for the price of that 500+hp Camaro you could almost buy 2 of the V6's. With a Camaro making 260-300 hp, who needs a daily driver with 500 hp? A similar argument can be made with the base Corvette, Z06, and ZR1. Just playing devils advocate here. I want the base V8.
Too bad they closed the topic looking for suggestions for how to market the new Camaro. I think you just gave me a great idea for a way to sell the car to masses and masses of college age kids:

"The 2010 Camaro V6: So powerful you won't need to apply badging from higher level models!"

or perhaps:

"The 2010 Camaro V6: So fast it doesn't need stickers or a chrome stovepipe exhaust!"

Oh yeah!
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:35 PM   #28
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I think they may SAY the V6 will have 260, but I think it will really have ~300ish. I have the feeling it could be underrated. I also have a feeling the G8's L76 may be underrated but I'm just taking a guess here because it seems to have some killer performance as the LS3 vette's seem to dyno more HP than expected.

As for me, all I want is the base V8 and I will be the happiest person in the world. Delete some mufflers and I'll be happier.
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