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Old 10-18-2017, 10:11 PM   #29
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I think our 2014/5 Z/28's are the end to naturally aspirated horsepower. The improvement cost along with emission issues creates a real handicap. A Corvette Engineer at Corvette Carlisle told me last year he had recently changed over to the Corvette group but prior he was with the Camaro group and when they looked at a new version improved type LS7 their cost was going to be 25K a pop. Didn't know if I believed him but that is what he said along with something to the tune of "you'll never see that engine again."
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:06 AM   #30
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Just curious...more user friendly in what way? I have a friend who has '69 Z/28. No power steering, braking requires significant effort, etc. Sounded great, and would love to have one, but I can't see how it's more user friendly.
Very good question. More user friendliness in terms of price (price should be easier to reach for more people), less damage from road racing and driving (those hips love rock chips), and better creature comfort and modern amenities (Mylink, safety warning features, back-up camera). Those are the top three user friendly areas on my list (for the 5th gen z28).
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:13 AM   #31
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Huh? I can gaurantee you the average joe would be infinitely more confident lapping a gen 5 around a track than a gen one,even on radials let alone bias ply's JMHO
You didn't get it: to be clear the '67-'69s had tires similar to the other performance Camaros of their day. You could drive a 1st gen Z28 similarly as with the other models, and still enjoy am/fm radio, ac, ps, pb, etc., and it was as affordable (or within price range) of a Camaro SS of the same vintage. The Z28 of that period was reachable to more buyers, which wasn't necessarily the case of the 5th gen z28s.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:22 AM   #32
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So you want more options and a lower price?

Remove the engine - I would not buy it
Remove the brakes - I would not buy it
Remove the tires - Ok, I dont care about those.
Cheaper Wheels - That would suck as I would have had to buy new wheels
Add a better stereo - would raise the price
Add floor mats - would raise the price
Add stupid driver aids - would raise the price.

How about removing the carpet, removing the back seat, removing the door panels, removing all the driving modes, and ad an option for a cage. It is a track car, its was meant to be a track car. Its very easy to add any of the 2SS camaro parts if you want them.

The issue was the $20,000 brakes. The average buyer did not know why it cost so much. Honestly, if the brakes where not on the car . would not have bought it. I would have bought the Corvette.

They are making a 4 banger version with all the option for those guys who want a cheap fast looking car. I will keep my Z28.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:28 AM   #33
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^No...I don't want anything.

Some have complained of the 5th gen Z28 not being a big seller or less of a success to GM. Conceptually the 5th gen was excellent, but in real life a lot of buyers did not come out for the Z28 due to the topics I described above. Edit: Add to this overcrowding with three Camaro models which were track focused.

It is a fine line that Chevy has to travel: Make it exclusive and expensive and it won't sell as a Chevrolet; Make it too cheap and less capable and it will be disrespected.

I'm saying to find the fine line.....excellent performance and a better price point, which will make the car sell better. We may (or may not) have this already in the Camaro line.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:39 AM   #34
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You didn't get it: to be clear the '67-'69s had tires similar to the other performance Camaros of their day. You could drive a 1st gen Z28 similarly as with the other models, and still enjoy am/fm radio, ac, ps, pb, etc., and it was as affordable (or within price range) of a Camaro SS of the same vintage. The Z28 of that period was reachable to more buyers, which wasn't necessarily the case of the 5th gen z28s.
I got it, if you meant more affordable but said user friendly i wouldn't have questioned your statement. The DZ302 was a solid lifter engine that was not available with AC.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:50 AM   #35
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For me, a new 6th Gen Z/28 should have a NA motor based on the LT1 with about 550 HP with Z/28-specific trim, tires, wheels, and the ZL1 Diff. Add CC Brakes and Trofeo-like tires/wheels as options. Make it available on a 1SS or 2SS. Slot the price above the SS 1LE and below the current ZL1.

IMO it does NOT have to be the supreme Track Car from Chevrolet but it should be the Best NA Track car out there. And it SHOULD have the A10 as an option.

It will sell.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:20 AM   #36
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For me, a new 6th Gen Z/28 should have a NA motor based on the LT1 with about 550 HP with Z/28-specific trim, tires, wheels, and the ZL1 Diff. Add CC Brakes and Trofeo-like tires/wheels as options. Make it available on a 1SS or 2SS. Slot the price above the SS 1LE and below the current ZL1.
I would not buy that car or want that car. I would buy the Corvette in that case.
Its no longer a special car. Its just another SS with some stickers and wheels. GM probably would sell more of them, but who cares. They would be the same people who would have bought the 2SS.

It needs to be better, faster and more expensive then the ZL1 1LE or its not the king of the hill.
The Z28 should stay top dog or forget it.

I want a 625 hp naturally aspirated, manual transmission, carbon ceramic brakes, track car. They really can take out all the computers, all the leather, the fancy heavy seats, the cameras and anything that ads weight. They can even have the power windows. The Z28 should be a striped down car with the biggest engine possible. If its anything else I will not buy it. I will just buy the Corvette.

If GM knows all that... why make the car?

You will buy the 2SS or the 4 banger and I will buy the GrandSport and GM sells the same amount of new cars. GM has to find a spot that wont take the sales from the 2SS or the Corvette. If they cannot get the Ford and Dodge buyers why bother. They tried and failed. Sure I bought a new Z28 but as I said I did it instead of a new Corvette.

I hate the new 4 banger. But it was a great move by GM. They are going to get the Honda buyers with that car. It will actually increase sales of GM products and not just move the GM buyer to a different car.

The Z28 just happened by chance and timing. Same as the 1996 LT4 Z51 (My other track car).
When better parts are left over so the cost is way down GM makes amazing stuff.

I don't know why so many people keep talking about the next Z28. Where were all these people in 2014 when they were for sale?
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:43 AM   #37
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I don't know why so many people keep talking about the next Z28. Where were all these people in 2014 when they were for sale?
Doing the exact same thing people are doing now. Asking for a track car, getting a track car, then realizing what a track car actually IS and buying a ZL1 instead.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:50 AM   #38
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....

I don't know why so many people keep talking about the next Z28. Where were all these people in 2014 when they were for sale?
Absolutely great point ! You always here about all these people waiting for the new Z/28... what for ? They had a carbon ceramic brakes Z/28 "best drivers car" available under their nose for almost half price for the last 3 years. What are they waiting for ? leather interior ? -- Ok, maybe the better alpha platform for cornering ? and when that Z/28 comes out, they will wait for the mid engine version... lol..

Get ready for a turbo in the next Z/28... We will feel very lucky to have our 427s.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:54 AM   #39
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I would not buy that car or want that car. I would buy the Corvette in that case.
Its no longer a special car. Its just another SS with some stickers and wheels. GM probably would sell more of them, but who cares. They would be the same people who would have bought the 2SS.

It needs to be better, faster and more expensive then the ZL1 1LE or its not the king of the hill.
The Z28 should stay top dog or forget it.

I want a 625 hp naturally aspirated, manual transmission, carbon ceramic brakes, track car. They really can take out all the computers, all the leather, the fancy heavy seats, the cameras and anything that ads weight. They can even have the power windows. The Z28 should be a striped down car with the biggest engine possible. If its anything else I will not buy it. I will just buy the Corvette.

If GM knows all that... why make the car?

You will buy the 2SS or the 4 banger and I will buy the GrandSport and GM sells the same amount of new cars. GM has to find a spot that wont take the sales from the 2SS or the Corvette. If they cannot get the Ford and Dodge buyers why bother. They tried and failed. Sure I bought a new Z28 but as I said I did it instead of a new Corvette.

I hate the new 4 banger
. But it was a great move by GM. They are going to get the Honda buyers with that car. It will actually increase sales of GM products and not just move the GM buyer to a different car.

The Z28 just happened by chance and timing. Same as the 1996 LT4 Z51 (My other track car).
When better parts are left over so the cost is way down GM makes amazing stuff.

I don't know why so many people keep talking about the next Z28. Where were all these people in 2014 when they were for sale?
Not sure what you mean...or maybe I missed it somewhere. Did you mean 4 cyl turbo??

I am a fan of Chevy's (GM's) 2 liter turbo. It is fuel efficient, quiet and quick. It is a great feature in that it generates good hp. from small, modest engines. Is it a replacement for a v8?....IMO no. However, it is a good basis for other high performance variants that GM could develop. Its a great engine that has added excitement to my Malibu DD.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:19 AM   #40
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The original Gen 1 Z/28 was not a stripped down, lightweighted, cage ready, track car. It was a Camaro with the DZ302 engine to meet the TA specs for engine size. They also had the SS (in various flavors/engines), and the uber-rare ZL1.

So, a next-gen Z/28 does not have to fit the mold of the 5th Gen, nor should it IMO.

But right now we are just debating 'what if' scenarios and justifying what we each want to see. I just do not see another Z/28 coming IF it is priced above the ZL1 1LE. Because it definitely would not sell. And to be quicker on a track than the ZL1 1LE would require a higher price regardless.

We'll see...
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Old 10-19-2017, 12:41 PM   #41
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Not sure what you mean...or maybe I missed it somewhere. Did you mean 4 cyl turbo??
4 banger is a slang term for a 4 cylinder engine. Could be turbo, nitrous, blown or whatever. They are all still 4 Bangers.

GM is making a 4 cylinder Camaro for autocross. I would take it if you gave it to me.

My daily driver is a 454. I don't do 4 bangers in anything.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:29 PM   #42
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Well said Post # 40.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchsquared View Post
4 banger is a slang term for a 4 cylinder engine. Could be turbo, nitrous, blown or whatever. They are all still 4 Bangers.

GM is making a 4 cylinder Camaro for autocross. I would take it if you gave it to me.

My daily driver is a 454. I don't do 4 bangers in anything.
454s are quite different in nature from a 4 cyl. Trust me I know....I know what it feels like to be kicked by one lol........

....and you don't know what you're missin' by not doing a 4......don't knock it till you've tried it.
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