Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8

[CaptianSam]

my brothers charger is only a r/t with minor modifications... it has 20 inch wheels and tires, k/n pop charger, headers and borla exhaust fitted to custom high flow cats...at he pulls 13.5 on the street with everyday tires... and thats only the 340 hp 5.7... imagine the 6.1 425 hp... with similar mods...i dont know... this article is just hypothetical... and the challenger WILL be getting a sixspeed... in the 6.1 and the 5.7 hemi is going to be more powerful... the lack of consistency in the article leads me to believe that the writers aren't even keeping up with the buzz...

i wouldn't hand a win to the camaro that easily...

a test we havn't seen yet
something with a ls3 (base vette)vs a SRT8 Challenger with a SIX SPEED
i think this would be a better indication of a more in depth test... that transmission will make a large impact on drag times
nobody has seen a new hemi with some better, quicker gearing, there all auto chargers... and lets not forget about 6.4 hemi rumors going around
im a chev guy through and through but i wouldn't count mopar out

[Italianwhiplash]

Well, There are rumors *that are turning out true*. that the srt-8 charger will have an updated engine and will come Manuel with that updated engine. So I wouldn't judge anything until both come out. I must admit that the challenger is the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life and its a recycled version of the Magnum chassis

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Italianwhiplash

Well, There are rumors *that are turning out true*. that the srt-8 charger will have an updated engine and will come Manuel with that updated engine. So I wouldn't judge anything until both come out. I must admit that the challenger is the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life and its a recycled version of the Magnum chassis

If you think the Challenger is bad, you've never seen an Aztek then, have you?
As far as the 510 hp Challenger, we have yet to see proof that it will happen. That would make for a massive engine lineup. But with rumors of a 500 hp Camaro, and the existance of the GT500, it does seem possible.

[NOODLESgoneWILD]

I believe your all correct, theres no doubt all these cars will come with a 500+hp model...But to be complete honest I wouldn't care if the Camaro had 1hp I'd just roll slow so everyone could see me in that bad azz/drop deep gorgeous car!

I wouldn't be caught dead in Ford and that challenger is FUGly.

[Italianwhiplash]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If you think the Challenger is bad, you've never seen an Aztek then, have you?
As far as the 510 hp Challenger, we have yet to see proof that it will happen. That would make for a massive engine lineup. But with rumors of a 500 hp Camaro, and the existance of the GT500, it does seem possible.

Well a 500 horse camaro is possible. Even if the ls3 engine is in it. it's so easy to get that thing to 507 hp/to the rear wheel

[radz28]

I completely agree that there is a chance of a new updated high-output Hemi out there that Mopar will put in there. Yes, I have read the 6.1L is going to be in the SRT8 but look what happened to the Z06 vs. Viper: Z06 comes back with 505 horse, and a couple years later, after getting spanked, SRT comes back with 600! I don't think Mopar will take the horsepower war laying down. With the Cobra already out, and speculation of GM working on a fighter to take it on, Mopar has to be working on something. They just introduced a new Hemi a while ago with like 520 horse; and they do have the V10 in the Viper.

IMHO, GM isn't going to offer the LS9 in a Camaro, why would they not offer it in the CTS-V otherwise? OF COURSE, I'd like that option, but I'm sure I couldn't afford it, and know I'd be happy with something similar to an LSA, or even the alleged LS8. Which brings me to another thought: why is GM developing so many supercharged powerplants that apparently seem so similar? I mean, the main differences (it seems) between the LS9 and LSA are smaller SC (CTS-V,) PM rods, different heads, cast pistons, and a couple other tidbits. It would seem that it would be easier to spead the LS9 to other lines, like CTS or XLR, and Camaro (even Escalade and Denali.) Detune it for these other cars and just utilize the same parts. Maybe the Ti rods and forged pistons are not available yet in quantities that would enable production numbers that these cars would seemingly possess; but to have something like four different powerplants (supposedly) with mostly the same mechanicals just doesn't add up to me.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I completely agree that there is a chance of a new updated high-output Hemi out there that Mopar will put in there. Yes, I have read the 6.1L is going to be in the SRT8 but look what happened to the Z06 vs. Viper: Z06 comes back with 505 horse, and a couple years later, after getting spanked, SRT comes back with 600! I don't think Mopar will take the horsepower war laying down. With the Cobra already out, and speculation of GM working on a fighter to take it on, Mopar has to be working on something. They just introduced a new Hemi a while ago with like 520 horse; and they do have the V10 in the Viper.

IMHO, GM isn't going to offer the LS9 in a Camaro, why would they not offer it in the CTS-V otherwise? OF COURSE, I'd like that option, but I'm sure I couldn't afford it, and know I'd be happy with something similar to an LSA, or even the alleged LS8. Which brings me to another thought: why is GM developing so many supercharged powerplants that apparently seem so similar? I mean, the main differences (it seems) between the LS9 and LSA are smaller SC (CTS-V,) PM rods, different heads, cast pistons, and a couple other tidbits. It would seem that it would be easier to spead the LS9 to other lines, like CTS or XLR, and Camaro (even Escalade and Denali.) Detune it for these other cars and just utilize the same parts. Maybe the Ti rods and forged pistons are not available yet in quantities that would enable production numbers that these cars would seemingly possess; but to have something like four different powerplants (supposedly) with mostly the same mechanicals just doesn't add up to me.

I don't care who wins the power wars, so long as GM wins in performance. As far as the different engines, I think its because the are all so similar that they can go and produce 5 'different' 6.2L engines. To make a few more parts isn't going to cost much more, and for the few LS9's that get built, the removal of those parts isn't going to bump the price of other things much. thats my take anyway

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I completely agree that there is a chance of a new updated high-output Hemi out there that Mopar will put in there. Yes, I have read the 6.1L is going to be in the SRT8 but look what happened to the Z06 vs. Viper: Z06 comes back with 505 horse, and a couple years later, after getting spanked, SRT comes back with 600! I don't think Mopar will take the horsepower war laying down. With the Cobra already out, and speculation of GM working on a fighter to take it on, Mopar has to be working on something. They just introduced a new Hemi a while ago with like 520 horse; and they do have the V10 in the Viper.

IMHO, GM isn't going to offer the LS9 in a Camaro, why would they not offer it in the CTS-V otherwise? OF COURSE, I'd like that option, but I'm sure I couldn't afford it, and know I'd be happy with something similar to an LSA, or even the alleged LS8. Which brings me to another thought: why is GM developing so many supercharged powerplants that apparently seem so similar? I mean, the main differences (it seems) between the LS9 and LSA are smaller SC (CTS-V,) PM rods, different heads, cast pistons, and a couple other tidbits. It would seem that it would be easier to spead the LS9 to other lines, like CTS or XLR, and Camaro (even Escalade and Denali.) Detune it for these other cars and just utilize the same parts. Maybe the Ti rods and forged pistons are not available yet in quantities that would enable production numbers that these cars would seemingly possess; but to have something like four different powerplants (supposedly) with mostly the same mechanicals just doesn't add up to me.

Big Surprise... Once again we agree.

So here's a big fat +1

[radz28]

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I don't care who wins the power wars, so long as GM wins in performance. As far as the different engines, I think its because the are all so similar that they can go and produce 5 'different' 6.2L engines. To make a few more parts isn't going to cost much more, and for the few LS9's that get built, the removal of those parts isn't going to bump the price of other things much. thats my take anyway

Exactly.. power #'s quoted from the manufacturer is often overrated or underrated anyway. It's the #'s that we'll see from slalom tests, acceleration tests, braking tests, etc.. that will really matter in the end. The bragging rights from having the biggest manufacturer's quoted #'s is stupid.

[RLHMARINES]

I know Scott has said it before that we will not be dissapointed when it comes to powerplants. I think that the Gen V engines will be the Maro's top choices including Direct Fuel Injection as a performance standout over lesser models. The supercharged top dog v8 will be available during the second year. The SS will be higher than the Z28 and you will have a choice of a billet styled fuel door or painted one. Just a little info from an inside source that i know. My source also said that after 2012, high 500+ hp engines might become scarce due to up coming new fuel regs and the as yet decided implementation period.

[radz28]

Ya' know, I can't help but think that you're onto something here. I remember a little tidbit in GMHTP wherein they had a wee-bit of information on DI on a 6.2 cylinder head. I remember a shot of the combustion chamber where you could plainly see the valves, spark plug, and the injector nozzle. I don't think I'm confabulating this, so I think something like this is entirely possible.

How about a DI S/Cd' 6.2L?...

[GTAHVIT]

I know we keep saying this over and over. But Scott's repeated comments about powerplants came before the LSA and LS9 motors were officially announced to be in the CTSV and the ZR1. So I still tend to think that something like this is gonna be the first round of V8's.

I know the car has to be affordable, but with this being the second comming of the camaro and all the talk about being best in class. I just firmly believe this car will be a statement to the extreme. My guess is Chevy wants mustang and challenger owners jaws to drop when the camaro hits the streets. The first thing out of their mouths will be, "Damn, I should have waited." Only the ignorant will be dumb enough to test the new camaro on the streets. Educated stang and challenged owners will leave it alone....

After killing the camaro, and taking all this time (Well worth it imho) to bring her back, I don't think Chevy can just quietly reenter the pony car race. They have to leave em wondering what the hell just happened.

I know this is all eeewey goooeeewey emotional ranting. I know cars aren't engineered with this kind of though at the forefront. Feelings don't build cars. I just hope that where the camaro is concerned emotions will build a better car.

I need to make an appointment to see my therapist...

[radz28]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

I know we keep saying this over and over. But Scott's repeated comments about powerplants came before the LSA and LS9 motors were officially announced to be in the CTSV and the ZR1. So I still tend to think that something like this is gonna be the first round of V8's.

I know the car has to be affordable, but with this being the second comming of the camaro and all the talk about being best in class. I just firmly believe this car will be a statement to the extreme. My guess is Chevy wants mustang and challenger owners jaws to drop when the camaro hits the streets. The first thing out of their mouths will be, "Damn, I should have waited." Only the ignorant will be dumb enough to test the new camaro on the streets. Educated stang and challenged owners will leave it alone....

After killing the camaro, and taking all this time (Well worth it imho) to bring her back, I don't think Chevy can just quietly reenter the pony car race. They have to leave em wondering what the hell just happened.

I know this is all eeewey goooeeewey emotional ranting. I know cars aren't engineered with this kind of though at the forefront. Feelings don't build cars. I just hope that where the camaro is concerned emotions will build a better car.

I need to make an appointment to see my therapist...

Once again, I am in complete agreement with you. Maybe it sounded (read) a little brokeback, but I have to admit, too, that I have emotional convictions and feel strongly that an enthusiast will connect with a car if it evokes emotions. Like you said, emotions will build a better car, and it seems that the engineers and people on the Camaro team have recognized that.

I also think that in order for Camaro to be successful in the marketplace, they are going to have to make it just stomp the Mustang and Challenger performance and ergonomically. I don't know much about the next Mustang, but the Challenger is a joke, IMHO; it's like Chrysler didn't even try.