07-17-2013, 10:18 AM | #1 | |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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Considering a 2LS? Read This First!
***Important update regarding TapShift and Sport Mode: See the 04/06/2014 update below for more information.***
***NOTE: This post is not an attempt to belittle the 2LS or those who have chosen to purchase one. Please read the entire post before jumping to any conclusions. When the 5th Gen Camaro was introduced for the 2010 model year, the base V6 trim was the “LS,” and the only model in that trim level was the 1LS. For low- to mid-$20K, buyers could get all the goodness of the new direct-injected V6 LLT powerplant—and the killer 5th Gen looks—without any frills to drive the price up. In February of 2012 (late in the 2011 model year run), GM changed things up a bit. They split the LS trim level into two models, adding the 2LS to the 1LS. The 1LS remained virtually unchanged, becoming the base model equipped with a manual transmission. The 2LS, however, is a bit of a different story. On the surface, the 2LS appears to be identical to the 1LS, except that it has an automatic transmission. This is essentially true, as the available options for either of the LS trims are otherwise identical. However, there are a few other key differences between the 1LS and the 2LS that prospective buyers need to be aware of, and that neither GM nor their dealerships make clear. In fact, many salespeople likely aren’t even aware of these differences, and may tell buyers that the manual vs. auto is the ONLY difference between the two. Heck, our own Camaro5 wiki doesn’t even make it clear. I have seen numerous posts from 2LS owners that were unaware of these other differences, and may have made different purchasing decisions had they known in advance. This post is an attempt to remedy that situation, and help Camaro5 continue to be the best resource for complete and accurate 5th Gen information. So, here are the other key differences that your Chevy salesperson likely doesn’t know and won’t tell you about:
Update (04/06/2014): C5 member BlackoutLFX, using HPTuners, has discovered that both Sport Mode and TapShift can be enabled on the 2LS (and appears to provide the same functionality as the LT models). See BlackoutLFX's thread here. This has since been verified by a couple of other 2LS owners as well. BlackoutLFX basically copied the settings for the LT models from several transmission-related tables that HP Tuners displays, which he shows in post #25 of that thread. This should allow proper dyno results on these cars as well. A few caveats:For those that don’t care about these differences and want a great looking base model Camaro that happens to get the best mileage of any current Camaro—probably any Camaro EVER—the 2LS is a great car. Just be aware that your salesperson is probably clueless about the uniqueness of the 2LS. Hopefully this will reach those who are considering the 2LS, so that they may make an informed buying decision and avoid any buyer’s remorse. I am attaching copies of the 2012 owner’s manual and the 2013 Camaro brochure referenced above, in case the links I posted are ever changed.
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07-17-2013, 01:14 PM | #2 |
Drives: Mean ass V6 Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 128
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Nice post. Knew about the gear ratio but never about the sport mode. Understand the gear ratio from GM's perspective because that 30mpg is a good sales pitch. Don't understand the sport mode change though. Who it out towing with a camaro
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07-17-2013, 02:19 PM | #3 |
Drives: 2016 1LT RS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Point, OR
Posts: 5,688
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Nice post. It should also be added that none of the popular gear set options will fit, supposedly the only available gear set that will fit is 3.55.
*edited* Last edited by Jason@JacFab; 07-31-2013 at 02:05 AM. |
07-17-2013, 03:02 PM | #4 | |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Same for the limited gear options. You have to swap axles and part of the drive shaft, etc., just to swap a V8 differential into any V6 auto. The V6 manuals have the same housing as the SS, so things are easier (and they have LSD).
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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07-17-2013, 03:47 PM | #5 |
Founder - Michigan FBody
Drives: 1994 Camaro LT1, 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Haven, MI
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Interesting read -- I tried telling my dad that he isn't actually shifting his engine when it's in manual mode, but I guess if you're downshifting it to 1st every time you come to a stop, in a way you're still controlling which gear it's in. The only time that this sport mode issue would come into affect would be if you left it in 3rd and came to a stop at a light and then went to take off, you wouldn't take off in 3rd gear - right?
The reason I ask this, is my dad drives my mom's 2012 2LS in the winter and he swears he puts it in manual mode and takes off in 3rd gear.
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07-17-2013, 04:45 PM | #6 |
Drives: 2013 2SS RS Hurst NPP Join Date: May 2012
Location: Perrysburg, OH
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Good info here...
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07-17-2013, 04:47 PM | #7 | |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Of course, even in manual mode on other trim levels the transmission downshifts for you as you come to a stop. It does not hold a specific gear higher than first when stopped, and you don't HAVE to manually downshift as you slow. What your dad is likely seeing is that he has selected 3rd as his max gear, giving the 2LS the "range" of 1st to 3rd to use. The DIC displays the max gear the driver selects when in ERS Mode, not the gear the car is currently in.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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07-17-2013, 07:20 PM | #8 |
Speed Racer
Drives: 2022 LT1 Join Date: May 2012
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Excellent info. I knew most of it, but I learned a few things.
Good job!
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07-17-2013, 07:44 PM | #9 |
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Sweet post, this needs to be a sticky for sure! I love my 1LS, I've got the hardware of the more expensive boys and the affordability.
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07-17-2013, 09:50 PM | #10 |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
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Indeed. The 1LS is a real steal, if you can do without the frills.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
07-17-2013, 10:26 PM | #11 |
603 Camaros
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Everything there seems to be right except the introduction year of the 2LS then again you did state 2012 LFX which is the year the LFX was introduced so ya. but 2LS's were around before then and aside from the manifold changes in the LFX everythiing the OP stated is completely true for the LLT aswell.
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07-17-2013, 10:39 PM | #12 | |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "aside from the manifold changes." I'm not trying to discuss LFX vs LLT. One other change I have to mention is that I believe the LLTs cannot activate TapShift for 10 seconds while in Drive. I believe hitting the paddles in a LLT when in Drive does nothing, IIRC.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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07-18-2013, 12:35 PM | #13 |
Mid-Florida Camaro Club
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I picked up a 2013 2LS as my 3rd car and my daily 80 mile commuter in traffic. With rebates and incentives I was in the mid $22k for a new car that looks like this... add some stripes, foglights, CAI and exhaust and I am done.
I have gotten 30+ miles per gallon consistently on trips where I maintain 55-65. For my commute from Daytona to Orlando and back its smooth sailing at 7am (25-28 mpg at 70-80) and pure stop and go 2 hour hell at 4:30. I am averaging 22.5-25mpg per 400+ mile tank depending on how many times my wife steals it at night to take the kids somewhere locally in town. Shut off the traction control and I can shred rubber forever if I wanted to act like some little kid. Shifting D to M on the highway drops me to 4th instantly and I have plenty of HP and gear at 4th to get me into a hole or pass "slower traffic" safely and pretty freaking quickly. Yes I am setting the maximum gear with the paddles. I can wind every gear to red-line if I want, or I can downshift to any gear I want (holding a gear sounds great with magnaflow glasspacks)...What I can't do is lug the engine (too high a gear for the speed) or accidentally start the car in anything but first. The problem with those two things is what? I own a 2003 SMT6 MR2 Spyder. A true clutchless 6-speed transmission. the hydraulic clutch is engaged by the computer and the engine revs to match the gear selection or lugs because of poor selection. That is true paddle shifting, if you ever auto-crossed one you know what I mean. a computer controlled double rev blip to keep the nose up when downshifting in a tight corner is SAWEET. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 2LS or its gearing unless you are looking for a quarter mile killer, or track car. If you thought you were going to get a competive car for those purposes for under $30k new you are an idiot or not competitive anyways My 2cents
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07-18-2013, 12:50 PM | #14 | ||
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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Quote:
Quote:
The 2LS and it's differences from other V6 automatics may be the perfect car for some buyers, such as yourself. The problem arises when those differences are important to people, and they buy without knowing they exist or because they are misled. This thread is an attempt to rectify that, nothing more.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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