10-12-2015, 06:25 AM | #267 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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10-12-2015, 08:53 AM | #268 |
Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mechanicsville, VA
Posts: 6,809
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can't we all just get along...this thread is meant to be informative and not a personal bashfest. I have learned a lot from reading this entire thread and would love it if "feelings" were left out. Thanks...your mediator.
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'21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60'
'17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold) |
10-12-2015, 09:44 AM | #269 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
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I'm not going to re-read this entire thread, but IIRC the matter of warranty didn't creep in until Redline oil and its standing with respect to dexos got mentioned.
Given that there are some who will or currently are running Redline with track driving not involved, the matter of warranty should have been left limited to that and all the recent needless tangential crap in this thread avoided entirely. There probably are people who will try to get incidents covered under warranty that should not be. But for benefit of the doubt purposes is it all that unreasonable to assume that the serious regulars here (or just serious track day regulars in general) understand what they're doing and will "man up" when the failure occurs without being scolded ahead of time based on the assumption that they won't? Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
10-12-2015, 12:38 PM | #270 |
Drives: ‘13 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,904
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10-22-2015, 05:28 PM | #271 |
Drives: 14 1LE Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,567
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Anyone interested in GM’s perspective on cooling issues should take a look at these threads on the corvette forum. Sure they are about the Corvette but a lot of the information in general can pertain to the Camaro. It would be great if we could start a similar section in Camaro5 that we could send to a GM representative to have technical questions answered.
Enjoy the reading http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3695333-answered-changes-to-engine-oil-cooling.html This one is great because it gives perspective to the oil cooling systems used by GM on the Corvette over the past generations. There is even mention of the Z28 cooling system. http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html This one describes some of GM’s track testing parameters regarding fluid system temperatures.
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LMS Engineering
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10-22-2015, 08:10 PM | #272 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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10-22-2015, 08:11 PM | #273 | |
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1SS/RS A6 Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 119
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I have extensively tracked a C5 Z06 (no aftermarket cooling) and 2014 Camaro SS auto (aftermarket trans cooler) in 100 plus temps, with no warnings.
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Chris Werner
Author, "How to Rebuild GM LS-Series Engines" Contributing Editor, GM High-Tech Performance (1998-2014) |
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10-22-2015, 08:14 PM | #274 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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10-22-2015, 08:18 PM | #275 |
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1SS/RS A6 Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 119
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Only VIR thus far with the Camaro. Z06 also saw NJMP and Lime Rock but has been sold. (Cobalt SS has seen VIR and Road Atlanta, never a temp problem with that car either).
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Chris Werner
Author, "How to Rebuild GM LS-Series Engines" Contributing Editor, GM High-Tech Performance (1998-2014) |
10-22-2015, 08:35 PM | #276 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Heat is directly related to the amount of time the engine is spinning at high rpm. 30 minute sessions at VIR in 90* plus heat will have engine oil in the 300 degree range with laps under 2:20. I have seen way too often. I am not sure how you avoid this.
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10-23-2015, 09:11 AM | #277 |
Drives: 2022 SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,086
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I'm sorry but Tadge was sugar coating it, no way they met their design requirements. The C7 ZO6 cannot handle continuos driving around a typical road course at 86 F by a pro driver. The C7 ZO6 has not been able to run at Laguna Seca nor Buttonwillow with normal Joes behind the wheel in mid-60s ambient temp for more than a few laps without overheating. When I tracked at Buttonwillow a week ago, my friend's ZO6 overheated and went into limp mode after three or four laps. This was in the cool morning session in the 60s. His gauges are hard to read but he thinks oil was over 300 and water over 260 F. After going into limp mode and then having to back off in the next session, he short shifted at 5,000 RPM for the rest of the day. Meanwhile, I saw a max of 221 F water and 244 F oil in the Viper. We were the two fastest cars of the weekend so we were driving them hard, but neither of us are as fast as a pro. Same thing at Laguna Seca a couple months ago. In high 60s ambient, a C7 ZO6 went into limp mode mid-session with 267 F water and 309 F oil. It puked all of its coolant out in the paddock. Totally unacceptable. Very disappointed in GM for releasing the ZO6 like this.
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Sold but not forgotten! Pedders Supercar Coilovers, 32mm rear sway bar,bushings; APR wing and splitter
Forged 416 road course stroker. 514 RWHP, 497 RW Ft-Lb 1 Camaro, 75 Vipers: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393697 Buttonwillow Raceway: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389086 Last edited by Orange Crush 1LE; 10-23-2015 at 09:24 AM. |
10-23-2015, 09:28 AM | #278 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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10-23-2015, 10:55 AM | #279 |
Drives: 14 1LE Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,567
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I've been lucky enough that my local tracks don't tax the cooling system as bad as some of the ones mentioned here. I’m not saying it isn’t over taxed… it is. Typically in 90ish ambient I will run 220 water and 290 oil. It has ran hotter in hotter weather but it has never went into a limp mode.
I don’t understand GM’s approach either, it’s too easy to create a cooling system that works for quickly getting the vehicle up to temp and also providing adequate cooling under race like conditions. Using the heat exchanger seen on the current cars is great, like Tadge said, it’s provided a better cooling system then any of their previous designs. The problem with it is its significantly undersized. If they don’t want to create a superior cooling system because its overkill for the masses then it would be great if they offered a supplemental cooling system that could be installed with OEM fit and reliability.
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10-23-2015, 11:25 AM | #280 |
Drives: 2022 SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,086
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I'm a design engineer myself, sometimes you get boxed into a corner and have to do the best you can with what you've got to work with. They put form before function. Tadge hinted at the constraints. Perhaps there isn't a high-pressure opening in the front of the C7 available for a good oil cooling solution. I was suggesting to my friend to consider putting dual oil coolers where the brake cooling openings are. Two custom shrouded air to oil coolers in those places may do the trick, or may not as there's not a lot of room. The air could pass through the oil coolers and then also cool those big CCBs.
I just called LG Motorsports, they are working on a solution but it's not out yet. Lingenfelter is supposedly working on one too, but nothing on their website yet. Sorry for the hijack.
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Sold but not forgotten! Pedders Supercar Coilovers, 32mm rear sway bar,bushings; APR wing and splitter
Forged 416 road course stroker. 514 RWHP, 497 RW Ft-Lb 1 Camaro, 75 Vipers: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393697 Buttonwillow Raceway: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389086 |
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