Lower Control Arms

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Beyond Limits

Upgrading the lower control arms is only worth while if your application demands it (drag racing with 600+ rwhp for example). The stock LCA's will work fine for most applications. Really what you should consider far more then control arms is rear cradle bushing inserts. They are a fairly easy install and will make the largest difference in your suspension setup. Based on your other mods you have listed you have most of the upgraded suspension pieces in place already, however you really need to address your foundation which is what the inserts will do. They will also allow you go get the full potential out of the upgrades you already have in place. Get a hold of Chase over at Apex and he can get you going in the right direction.

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I know they are important. I was just avoiding them because they are more of an involved installation (from looking at it under the car maybe im wrong)

I was also under the impression that lowering the car 1 inch would actually help the launch somewhat and be a good all around mod and also improves the look. Am I off base here?

Lastly...I was concerned with noise and vibrations etc when changing out such a component.

thanks a lot for the advice, I am open to all suggestions.

sounds like the bushings should be my next step.

Here is my take for what it's worth. I installed the BMR inserts about a month ago (one day I keep saying I will make a write up on the project since I did Springs, trailing arms, bushings, inserts, sways and end links basically all at the same time over 2 days in my garage). The inserts are actually really easy to install. There are a lot of write ups here on it but every one of them makes it seem harder then it really is. The hardest part is getting the bottom plate off the bushings. (Once I figured it out on the first one I can do it with with a large flat head screwdriver and a dead blow hammer in less then 5 minutes a bushing). When you are installing the rear inserts just remember it is flexible so you can bend it to get it under the rear alignment posts (it is impossible to lower the rear of the cradle down far enough to get it in without a little (and I mean tiny) bit of manipulation without starting to disconnect other components of the rear end which I was not in the mood to do. Also, there is mixed messages on using lube on the inserts. What I will tell you is that you don't need lube to get the inserts into the voids. However if you do not use the thick lube provided between the top of the bushing and the under body and the lower bushing and the retaining plate they will squeak. Honestly, if you have the skills to have done any other suspension work on your car the cradle inserts are a cake walk.

In terms of looks, IMHO the 1" drop makes the car sit how it should have from the factory. The wheel well gaps finally look correct and it just has a meaner look. I went with BMR springs which have a fairly high spring rate (from my understanding the rear spring rates for BMR and Pfadt are identical and the front Pfadt spring rates are around 20lbs higher, and both of these spring rates are higher then Pedders and Hotchkis (although I am sure Pete or Mike will correct me if I am wrong on this)). Now I honestly would not want the car any lower then this since I don't think for the normal person you really gain much, however you would scrape a lot more any lower (as it is now I will scrape the black plastic chin spoiler on a pretty regular basis, however I have never scrapped the lower bumper on anything). At 1" drop you just clear the most commonly hit item with lowered cars, the concrete stops in parking spaces.

In terms of the cradle inserts, they really make a world of difference. The one thing about this platform is it does not matter what you do to your rear suspension unless you address the cradle bushings. Think of it like this, your suspension components are all attached to this marvel of engineering GM gave us with the cradle. However, they attached this marvel of engineering to the rest of the car with what amounts to giant sponges. It does not matter what you do to the rest of the suspension until you deal with that problem. You really don't realize just how much step out there is in the rear end until you install the inserts. The car rear end just feels like it is put together. I feel like it now does what I want it to, rather then what it wants to do. Launches are butter smooth (I can lay rubber through 3 to 4 gears without a hint of hop or chatter and I have not changed the rear toe rods yet). The inserts honestly made all of my other changes go from, "ok I like this", to "alright, now this is what I was looking for". In terms of changes in noise/harshness, if there was a change I honestly did not notice it. I get more comments now about how nice the car rides then I ever did with the stock suspension.

I have been watching the development of the suspension components from day 1 and when I finally had the time to make the changes I wanted I went with BMR for springs, trailing arms, bushings, cradle inserts, and tunnel brace, and Pfadt's sport sways and end links and I could not be happier with the overall setup. (and yes, I like so many others here worked with Chase at Apex for some of the components and I cannot recommend his shop highly enough).

Bottom line is you can't go wrong with cradle inserts, irregardless of if you get them from BMR or Pedders.

[JusticePete]

Pedders has been working with ZETA for 5 years. We started with the Holden Commodore in Australia, migrated to the Pontiac G8 and then worked with GM on the Grand Am Challenge Camaro that debuted at SEMA in 2008 before the Camaro was available for retails purchase. We know the chassis inside out. The biggest compliment we get on the Camaro5 forum is people that use our terminology and don't even realise they are using it.

Foundational Bushes is a term I created to bring the Pedders philosophy and product to the USA five years ago. We started posting on this forum in 2007 answering questions about what to expect in the 5th Gen. That is when we introduced the Camaro community to foundational bushes, sub-frame bushes, sub-frame inserts and terms like rear end step out.

Since those early days, the Camaro market place has become crowded with suspension companies. Pedders was the first to market with sub-frame inserts. Pedders did the R & D to develop them. We knew then that others would 'learn' from what we do. What they haven't done is prove the merits of their products on the track. Pedders has set the benchmarks for 5th Gen performance. The ONLY time Pedders and the other suspenion companies were on track together was the OPTIMA Challenge. Pedders was the clear winner.

Pedders built our Camaro 'online'. Every step has been detailed. No elements of our setup were kept confidentail. Everyone knows exactly what they had to beat. We published everything we did to our 5th Gen for the benefit of the Camaro5 community. It also benefits our competitors. Yet with the wealth of information we have published on this forum no one has met Pedders performance standards on the road course or on the drag strip.

EVERYONE has video to show you a stable sub-frame. You don't need braces or solid mounts for street use. Inserts or bushes will do the job and NOT CHANGE the ride quality or stress your sub-frame.



As for bars and other upgrades, start with THE BOOK on 5th Gen Suspension. It will take you through the complete story of ZETA going back years to the Commodore in Australia.

We were the fastest 5th Gen at the Optima Challenge, we ran faster lap times than any of the Pro Touring Cars (check out the suspension company cars) at Gingerman and are FASTER than a CTS-V race car. Everybody talks about performance, but Pedders documents it in video and with the press. Anyone that wants to prove their product is better than Pedders can go to Spring Mountain and run faster than 1.50.2 or Gingerman and best a 1.33.6.





On the drag strip you can see what Lingenfelter has done with Pedders Supercar Coilovers. Lingenfelter removed brand-x and gained 3/10s in the sixty foot breaking into the 8s.

Sorry to drone on, but I am passionate about this. I love the 5th Gen Camaro and think the Chevrolet engineers did a brilliant job with it. What we do is what they can't do because they are restricted by target price points and bean counters. We like to think Pedders bits are exactly what they would use if they had the budget. In fact, GM did use Pedders on their Indy and NASCAR Pacecars. They also used Pedders on Jay Leno's Camaro. Check under the hood of a GM owned Camaro and you will probably find Pedders on it. The most important thing I can tell you about GM and Pedders is that all the cars I just mentioned were not only on Pedders, but GM bought and paid for the Pedders bits. Maybe that is why Pedders parts are available through your Chevrolet Dealer and GMPP?





Feel free to call any Pedders Suspension Specialist or Pedders to discuss suspension setup. We will help you do what you want with only the parts you need.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Beyond Limits

In terms of the cradle inserts, they really make a world of difference. The one thing about this platform is it does not matter what you do to your rear suspension unless you address the cradle bushings. Think of it like this, your suspension components are all attached to this marvel of engineering GM gave us with the cradle. However, they attached this marvel of engineering to the rest of the car with what amounts to giant sponges. It does not matter what you do to the rest of the suspension until you deal with that problem. You really don't realize just how much step out there is in the rear end until you install the inserts. The car rear end just feels like it is put together. I feel like it now does what I want it to, rather then what it wants to do. Launches are butter smooth (I can lay rubber through 3 to 4 gears without a hint of hop or chatter and I have not changed the rear toe rods yet). The inserts honestly made all of my other changes go from, "ok I like this", to "alright, now this is what I was looking for". In terms of changes in noise/harshness, if there was a change I honestly did not notice it. I get more comments now about how nice the car rides then I ever did with the stock suspension.

I have been watching the development of the suspension components from day 1 and when I finally had the time to make the changes I wanted I went with BMR for springs, trailing arms, bushings, cradle inserts, and tunnel brace, and Pfadt's sport sways and end links and I could not be happier with the overall setup. (and yes, I like so many others here worked with Chase at Apex for some of the components and I cannot recommend his shop highly enough).

Very well put. Excellent post.

Locking in the rear cradle is critical for those looking to significantly improve the handling characteristics of these cars. Here is a great video that Pfadt shot that shows just how much movement there is in the factory set up versus their solid bushings.

[2010_5thgen]

subframe bushings are a must. i found out the hard way that i needed them bad. pedders stuff is great.

i keep in touch with BMR, and the lower control arms are supposed to be out the end of this month....but i dount it. they have alot of other stuff their working on. if you need them now, spohn is some great stuff. ill hold out for BMR though.



and Pete, i finally have all my bushing to completely PEDDERIZE ME!

[ULTRAZLS1]

Justicepete....

would you just recommend some inserts for my application then?

I plan on running some 17 inch rims and a tire eventually for the strip occasionally and will likely go H/C in the next couple years.
The most power this car will ever have is ~500rwhp. I doubt I will ever add nitrous or go FI. I never have in the past with a car but you never know,.

It will be primarily a street car though...track only a few times a year (drag strip) I would say. I do appreciate a good handling car though and do not want to compromise this.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

ok, i feel left out because i haven't posted a subframe bushing video,

i don't have a Camaro Video, i only have one for the Charger/Challenger, but the mounting system is very very similar.

The first car is a stock Charger RT at full throttle, and the second car is my SRT8 (375 at the wheels) at full throttle. This was on the same road, same day.

you will see the sub frame moves a ton on the RT and none at all on the SRT8.





So i guess i need to make someone a deal on the installation of Sub Frame Bushings for a Camaro so i can get some new footage for a Camaro Video.

Anyone in the area brave enough to drive in the winter?

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS

ok, i feel left out because i haven't posted a subframe bushing video,

i don't have a Camaro Video, i only have one for the Charger/Challenger, but the mounting system is very very similar.

I've actually always kinda wondered why you guys never shot video of the cradle movement. You should do one for the stock bushings, the inserts, and then for your full poly replacements (if memory serves me correctly you have 2 different durometers available). Get one of those little helmet mount HD cameras and slap it under Pete's car.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

i have a number of the gopro cams, but i'm about 1000 miles from Pete, lol

need to find a donor car that wants a good deal for an install of sub frame mounts.

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Justicepete....

would you just recommend some inserts for my application then?

I plan on running some 17 inch rims and a tire eventually for the strip occasionally and will likely go H/C in the next couple years.
The most power this car will ever have is ~500rwhp. I doubt I will ever add nitrous or go FI. I never have in the past with a car but you never know,.

It will be primarily a street car though...track only a few times a year (drag strip) I would say. I do appreciate a good handling car though and do not want to compromise this.

when i put my cam in my car, i really noticed how weak the stock sub frame bushings are. after i put the pedder HD subframe bushings in....problem solved. no more squirreliness. i would highly recommend them. no matter who you go with, do the bushings.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen

when i put my cam in my car, i really noticed how weak the stock sub frame bushings are. after i put the pedder HD subframe bushings in....problem solved. no more squirreliness. i would highly recommend them. no matter who you go with, do the bushings.

Absolutely no difference in NVH?

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Absolutely no difference in NVH?

With the polyurethane bushings any increase in NVH is almost imperceptible. Even with the Pfadt solid bushings which are machined aluminum the increase is minimal, I have now issues recommending them even for daily drivers.

[Huggerorange73]

I've seen and read enough....I need these inserts...NOW!

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Absolutely no difference in NVH?

did i say that? my car is very loud and bumpy from all the mods ive done, so i cant really comment on that.