[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I mean no offense to you but with that name, I doubt many of the members are taking you very seriously.

Fact is, if you're (Motor Trend in this case) going to compare previous generations mustang to modern gen Camaro and you want to use the ZL1, then use the GT350 mustang or the GT500. As of now, there's actually no up to date competitor with the ZL1 and like you said, I see death for Camaro when and if Dodge makes a new/faster Hellcat and the GT500 has all the characteristics of the GT350 but with a Supercharger/Turbos. If it's a v6 it's an automatic loss tho IMO.

It’s just a screen name. I could easily change it to fudge-packer….that doesn’t mean I like to pack fudge.

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

My comment has nothing to do with the GT350R and today's run. I was referring to the A10 and M6 ZL1 comparison on MT when Randy made them change the tire pressure in the cars to make the A10 come out on top when at first the M6 beat the A10.

Ahh yes, went totally over my head…apologies.

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

It looks like the Mustang FunnyBoy is running out of things to say.

Not even close!

Originally Posted by 67Builder

Id say the outcome was pretty favorable.. The ZL1 won every section except the "feelz" from johnny and the other guy.

I don't need a re-categorization. They already did the proper head to head a while back in episode 71 with the last gen Z28 vs the new GT350R. Those are the right (direct competitors) cars to put up against each other.
When the GT500 comes out, a head 2 head with the ZL1 will be forthcoming. Again, those would be the correct cars to compare.

The review was favorable for both cars really. What it came down to was…they just like the GT350R better. That doesn’t mean anyone in here has to. I must say, I was expecting closer to a 1 second delta between the two…so I was a bit surprised.

I do agree, supercharged vs supercharged is where this comparison “should” be. That doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy what were give though.

[Mustang Fanboy]

[QUOTE=unavailablezl1;9742303]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Come on now, stop trying to find excuses.[/QUOTE

I am surprised you haven't called the Camaro butt ugly like you did on Mustang6g.

You lost, you just don't want to admit it.

Have you trolled enough?

Nice try, but I think you have the wrong fanboy my friend. I actually like the looks of the camaro, I just like the mustang that much more.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Facts,

The GT350R is a naturally aspirated car that was barely edged out on the track by a track ready car with 124 more horsepower and 221 lb feet more torque.

Point taken. But Chevy offers a car that has 124 more horsepower and 221 lbs more torque and the GT350R on the track for the same MSRP.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I see an epic meltdown coming when the GT500 finally makes it appearance.

We'll see.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The funny thing is, GM doesn’t really have a direct competitor to the GT350 or GT350R right now…so what we are left with are all of these oddball comparisons. One might argue the SS 1LE is more of a direct competitor, as they are both NA, but the 1LE doesn’t offer the extra wow factor by offering anything as different as the voodoo engine.

Who cars about the wow factor. The competitors just beat the GT350R while costing less money. The competition is not defined by what is on the window sticker. Its defined by the stop watch.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Anyway you cut it, the motortrend folk like the GT350R better than the Zl1. I personally would rather have the GT350R over the ZL1 any day of the week. I would also rather have a Zl1 over a standard GT, but really can’t justify spending the money.

I can't justify driving a GT350 when a car costing 20K less matches or beats it!

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

Point taken. But Chevy offers a car that has 124 more horsepower and 221 lbs more torque and the GT350R on the track for the same MSRP.


We'll see.

Who cars about the wow factor. The competitors just beat the GT350R while costing less money. The competition is not defined by what is on the window sticker. Its defined by the stop watch.

I can't justify driving a GT350 when a car costing 20K less matches or beats it!

Only a moron would let themselves get robbed for cars like these, and they are used. And a Ford?

I'm sorry but they are not that special. Maybe the people that are buying them have special needs like Mustang FunnyBoy.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...cLMuIRhXaFicgG


the MSRP....

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

The GT350R brakes are drilled, so they bite better which does make a small difference. I can tell. They may stop the car 4 feet sooner. That's about it.

I was referring to the ZL1 vs. ZL1 1LE brakes.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

I was referring to the ZL1 vs. ZL1 1LE brakes.

Oh ok, gotcha.

Thanks

[Boilermaker128]

Wow they are GTR NISMO price range and higher.

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by 762CAT

Facts

1.) GT350R is the Racing version of the Shelby GT350, which would equate to the ZL1 1LE which unfortunately was unavailable for testing and testing the normal 350 vs the ZL1 would be a blowout of enormous proportions.

2.) Regular Camaro ZL1 beat said name 350R in every objective metric that does not involve opinion.

3.) It did so on non R compound tires.

4.) Real world you will never find a 350R under 100k dollars, manual ZL1s can be bought in the 50s.

Everything else is subjective opinions and like the A-holes who write them they all stink. So here is my stinky mess.

Victory for the ZL1 hands down. Motor Trends previous review on the car was that it walked or drove rather on water and it was the greatest fastest creation ever made. This one....it wasn't loud enough.....aaaaand that's about it. If the "regular" version of the ZL1 beats the Race version of the Mustang that says a lot. You can counter point and say the mustang is impressive for hanging with a car with more power but take them to VIR and say that or any track where that power gap will really show itself.

I know a few people with 350s and Hellcats and they all say the 350 is boring to drive, terrible in the low RPM range. Every single one of them recommended against buying one and that once you go supercharged and experience that power everything else will feel less exciting. I tend to agree. Having heard Zl1s in person BTW I'm surprised they thought so ill of the sound. I think they sound fantastic.

For 70k I'm still thinking the ZL1 1LE is going to be the best track car bargain on the planet. For high 50s low 60s the Zl1 is the best Muscle Car/Sports Car/Performance car/whatever you want to call it car buy for the money. I still like my Hellcat better due to personal preference and opinions but it's more money so I cannot say it's a better buy for the money.

With you except for "Real world you will never find a 350R under 100k dollars".

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

Point taken. But Chevy offers a car that has 124 more horsepower and 221 lbs more torque and the GT350R on the track for the same MSRP.


We'll see.

Who cars about the wow factor. The competitors just beat the GT350R while costing less money. The competition is not defined by what is on the window sticker. Its defined by the stop watch.

I can't justify driving a GT350 when a car costing 20K less matches or beats it!

And yet, the GT350R is still more desirable by most with the exception of chevy fanboys. There are plenty of cars more expensive both that are slower...yet carry more clout. The GT350R is still seen as something very special while the Zl1 is a kick ass factory car (just not as special).

The competition today seems to be arbitrary.

I can't justify buying either! I couldn't justify spending $5k-$10k more for a 2SS over my GT. When it comes down to money, a foxbody is going to wipe the floor with everything when it comes to $$/performance. That doesn't mean I'm going out any buying one.

And....again, the GT350R actually beat the Zl1 in this head to head.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Facts,

The GT350R is a naturally aspirated car that was barely edged out on the track by a track ready car with 124 more horsepower and 221 lb feet more torque.

Both car have track ready tires.

The funny thing is, GM doesn’t really have a direct competitor to the GT350 or GT350R right now…so what we are left with are all of these oddball comparisons. One might argue the SS 1LE is more of a direct competitor, as they are both NA, but the 1LE doesn’t offer the extra wow factor by offering anything as different as the voodoo engine.

And the C7 GS would likely be ahead of it or tied (if using the previous ZL1 time for the Ignition episode as a base), but with over 60hp less....that's what 200lbs of weight difference can do if the car can use it. So no it's not impressive unless you are ignorant of the many examples of lighter cars with less hp beating or equaling more powerful, heavy cars.

The MPSS' on the GT350 are track tires too, but they didn't use them on the R. So saying track tire to track tire are equal is misleading at best. So unless you have a comparison test somewhere with both on the same car, they are not equal and we have no idea what the performance difference between them is (if any). So it's a mute point highlighted by the fact those same GYs are not being used on the "ultimate" Camaro...the ZL1 1LE.

The same can be said for the ZL1, there is no Ford competitor at this point...but as stated before, MT has dropped direct competitors a lot lately for PR purposes.

As for the 1LE wow factor, how bout you can buy 2 or maybe 3 of them compared to a R. That's a wow factor. You can even buy the C7 GS and still have money to throw at it for the price of an R. That's another wow factor right there, and not one to want.

[Faster12]

I couldn't read through all the comments without making my own. Did anyone else notice that on the short straights coming out of the turns, the ZL1 wasn't carrying as much speed as the mustang? Even on the final stretch the ZL1 didn't break away? Any thoughts???

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

And the C7 GS would likely be ahead of it or tied (if using the previous ZL1 time for the Ignition episode as a base), but with over 60hp less....that's what 200lbs of weight difference can do if the car can use it. So no it's not impressive unless you are ignorant of the many examples of lighter cars with less hp beating or equaling more powerful, heavy cars.

The MPSS' on the GT350 are track tires too, but they didn't use them on the R. So saying track tire to track tire are equal is misleading at best. So unless you have a comparison test somewhere with both on the same car, they are not equal and we have no idea what the performance difference between them is (if any). So it's a mute point highlighted by the fact those same GYs are not being used on the "ultimate" Camaro...the ZL1 1LE.

The same can be said for the ZL1, there is no Ford competitor at this point...but as stated before, MT has dropped direct competitors a lot lately for PR purposes.

As for the 1LE wow factor, how bout you can buy 2 or maybe 3 of them compared to a R. That's a wow factor. You can even buy the C7 GS and still have money to throw at it for the price of an R. That's another wow factor right there, and not one to want.

I'm not following. Are you saying the GT350R is not impressive?

You nor I have any idea how close or far the two tires are, so let's stop pretending they are the deciding factor here.

There have been many examples of R's going for at or close to MSRP. Word on the street is, they are going to be release quite a few more (to the displeasure of current R owners) for 2018. You most certainly can't buy 2 or 3 of them unless your one of the suckers that wanted the first R on the block.

[catdog]

Originally Posted by Faster12

I couldn't read through all the comments without making my own. Did anyone else notice that on the short straights coming out of the turns, the ZL1 wasn't carrying as much speed as the mustang? Even on the final stretch the ZL1 didn't break away? Any thoughts???

Thought the same thing, in fact thought the ZL1 was going to just kill it in the straights but it didn't.... must be the damn $15k Carbon Fiber wheel set on the GT350R ...OR... someone in the pits put cheap 87 octane in the ZL1 tank ....OR.... Randy was paid a visit by the representatives of the Shelby Mob....

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The review was favorable for both cars really. What it came down to was…they just like the GT350R better. That doesn’t mean anyone in here has to. I must say, I was expecting closer to a 1 second delta between the two…so I was a bit surprised.

I am glad someone else noticed that. We now live in a world where the high end version of the pony cars are zipping around a road course hanging and even besting the likes of Italian supercars, 911's, etc. If you told folks this not long ago they would have laughed so hard they would rupture their spleen.

It really is a victory for both brands, no question.

But it is still a tough comparison though, and here is why:

When I watched a Head2Head with the ATS-V vs. the C63 AMG, the ATS-V beat the Mercedes in every metric and they even said the Cadillac could be the best driving sports luxury coupe ever built, but still lost. And I agreed with the reasoning wholeheartedly. Their reasoning was that if a buyer was so fixated on tenths of a second differences, they would probably be buying a sports car rather than a sports luxury coupe, and the interior of the Cadillac was crappy. It has to be a good luxury car first, then be a great driving one second. The Mercedes did that, but the Cadillac did not.

But it's a bit of apples and oranges here. The GT350R is a dedicated track version of Ford's pony car (like the Z/28), but the ZL1 is a GT touring car (like the GT500). So, do you judge them by how well they go on a track, or how well they act as a GT car? Depending on what criteria you pick, you will get a different winner.

I really have no issue with them picking the GT350R. Under certain criteria, I would pick it as well. But, under other criteria, I would pick the ZL1. If you have no brand loyalty and like the looks of both cars, there are a ton of great choices to be had.

This was kind of like comparing ice cream vs. beer. They are both awesome, just different. Which one would I pick? BOTH!!