Z28 and the 5th Gen Refresh.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sure, and not even saying it couldn't happen. It's just the toughets link in your list.




Most definitely. The more things you have that have already been tested and to meet your requirements, the easier it will be. So to simply take the chassis bits from the ZL1 and take away MR would be much easier than to try to develop another all new suspension. And to simply maintain an SS interior instead of an all new Z28 specific interior is a no brainer. So a unique fascia would be a bit of work, but a new engine or higher output engine would require some work. For example, if you get your 475 HP LS3 that you are dreaming of would you use the trans and rear axle from the SS? or would you use the heavier duty bits from the ZL1? The ZL1 with a lower output engine would be easier, but heavier. The SS driveline would require the same torque management in the base LS3. So the more KNOWNS you can start with the easier the work to get there.

Thanks for your thoughts!
And most definately I(we) would want the ZL1 Heavy Duty goodies. For some this will be a platform for actual racing (kinda like a 60's Z28, wink wink). (ZL1 - LSA - MR)
I would look at this speculated Camaro (Z28) as a model to the ZL1, as the GS/Z06 is to the ZR1 Corvette.
It should fill a pricepoint missing from the Camaro line up around $40K. Speculating that the ZL1 is going to be $50K and the SS is now around $30k it makes marketing sense. It would give a ton of marketability (the Z28 name would be everywhere) at little relative investment cost. I'm sold!

[truth411]

I'm Sorry but if there ever is a 5th Gen Z/28, it should come with the CTS-V,ZR1,ZL-1 Magna Ride suspension. A. I highly doubt it would save any wieght over your standard set up. B. It is one of the worlds Fastest responding suspension systems (Ferrari uses the same set up) for a potential Z/28, Magna ride is a No brainer.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by truth411

I'm Sorry but if there ever is a 5th Gen Z/28, it should come with the CTS-V,ZR1,ZL-1 Magna Ride suspension. A. I highly doubt it would save any wieght over your standard set up. B. It is one of the worlds Fastest responding suspension systems (Ferrari uses the same set up) for a potential Z/28, Magna ride is a No brainer.

I think the Magna Ride shocks are superior to anything on the market today and are about a decade ahead of their time... and there lays the problem. The Z28 will/should be intended to be taken from road to the track and be very competitive without any third party modifications. Magnetic Ride control is prohibited from competition in 99.9% of circuits... GM has very competitive, lightweight (as light as it can be) and fairly priced suspension setups/options available. As mentioned above, the Z51 and FE4 together was used on the Corvette Z06 and was the preferred setup by rabid Z06 track enthusiast. The Z28 will be the Z06 in the Camaro lineup and offering things like MRC and Carbon Ceramic rotors are going disqualify the Z28 from competition... it will also drive the cost up...

Here was the 2004 Z06's new options listing, this isn't the complete listing but it has the FE4 option and a brief explanation.

New Features

(Z15) Commemorative Edition for Coupe and Convertible models - Coming Soon.
(Z16) Commemorative Edition for Z06 - Coming Soon.
(FE4) Z06 Performance Handling Package has revised shock valving from testing at Nurburgring race track in Germany.

[2cnd chance]

Thanks Pill my exact thoughts.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Pill, when you are talking in the speculative, all thoughts, ideas and opinions are fair game. Sometimes those discussions will delve into areas of fact (GG Tax) and hopefully the discussion remains respectful and we all learn from it.

As for the NG Mustang, your insights aren't off the wall. Even if you were going by your own instincts and ideas it's probably not far off from at least what Ford might like to do, even if they don't or can't. You seem fairly confident so I'll only say that my experience is that unless you know somebody who IS working on the program and IS risking their job by leaking information, then I wouldn't count on it. As I said, internet speculation, even good internet speculation can be a wide margin from fact. I see a LOT of "a guy I know........" comments about GM products on the internet that are so far off you would laugh if you knew the truth. In the industry, there is a lot of internal "what if we.............." and suddently somebody saw a memo or overheard a hallway conversation and it gets out as FACT....................only it was a 5 minute study that resulted in a "never mind, I thought we could go that way". So I'll defer to your confidence because I don't keep as close to Ford stuff other than our internal "counter intelligence" activity Besides, my friends at Ford don't tell me much other than how much they luuuvvvvvv their jobs. No, really they don't tell me anything. You'd think something would slip after that 3rd beverage, but nothing...................that I'd ever admit to.................comes up. Strange.

And for what it's worth, I believe we are at a historical time in the auto industry. In 2016, CAFE will rule the world as far as we know it today. Do an internet search and look at what China is proposing. They are actually worse than CAFE in the out years. In some worse case scenarios, they may be at 50 MPG + in the very near future. And with many cities in Europe proposing "no drive" times for gas AND diesel cars and trucks. CO2, Green House Gas regulations. They will drive us to a new and very different future. Even if oil is not a rare item, the demand for it in countries with rather large populations (China and India) will only go up. So we are at what I beleive to be the Zenith of gasoline fueled performance. The simple fact that you can go to Ford and GM and have a choice of 500+ HP cars is simply insane. And those cars still are capable of 20 mpg give or take. But 5 or 10 years, this simply will be so heavily regulated or cost constrained due to the price of fuel that it will simply be harder and harder to get cars like the ZL1, Z06, GT500 to market in such an affordable manner. It might be why I love these discussions. Talking about a Z28 is not far fetched today. It's a possibility..............it could happen.................maybe. But in by 2025 that conversation may require biblical tones to be realistic.

So could we tolerate a 2025 discussion about a Z28 with electric propulsion? Or is our historical reference to what a Z28 is make that impossible.

Hmmmmmm maybe too profound a question. It's easier to speculate on 2012 and 2013 than 2025. I haven't heard any rumors on 2025 yet. LOL

I dread the day of wide spread us of electric propulsion, to me it means the death of Hot Roding cars.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by truth411

I'm Sorry but if there ever is a 5th Gen Z/28, it should come with the CTS-V,ZR1,ZL-1 Magna Ride suspension. A. I highly doubt it would save any wieght over your standard set up. B. It is one of the worlds Fastest responding suspension systems (Ferrari uses the same set up) for a potential Z/28, Magna ride is a No brainer.

Magna ride is great and the future, I had the idea to use magnetic shocks way back in the 4th grade to bad I didn't know how to develop the idea back then, but cost wise it doesn't belong on the Z28.

I am also not sure I like the whole 475hp number, the Z28 needs to be more about sustained high revs not just straight hp. Don't get me wrong hp will help you pass in the straightaways but maintaining revs through the corners will win you the race.

[2cnd chance]

I'll take both.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by thePill

I think the Magna Ride shocks are superior to anything on the market today and are about a decade ahead of their time... and there lays the problem. The Z28 will/should be intended to be taken from road to the track and be very competitive without any third party modifications. Magnetic Ride control is prohibited from competition in 99.9% of circuits... GM has very competitive, lightweight (as light as it can be) and fairly priced suspension setups/options available. As mentioned above, the Z51 and FE4 together was used on the Corvette Z06 and was the preferred setup by rabid Z06 track enthusiast. The Z28 will be the Z06 in the Camaro lineup and offering things like MRC and Carbon Ceramic rotors are going disqualify the Z28 from competition... it will also drive the cost up...

Here was the 2004 Z06's new options listing, this isn't the complete listing but it has the FE4 option and a brief explanation.

Sorry But Heck no, The 1st gen Z/28 was about useing the best parts in GM's inventory to make the best possible track camaro. The 5th Gen should be the same, its a no brainer. 99% of people who would buy a Z/28 will take it to local track days on the weekend like me and would want a Z/28 design to give you the fastest possible lap times, That is the priority of the Z/28 above all else. Thus Magna ride is a no brainer.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

Magna ride is great and the future, I had the idea to use magnetic shocks way back in the 4th grade to bad I didn't know how to develop the idea back then, but cost wise it doesn't belong on the Z28.
I am also not sure I like the whole 475hp number, the Z28 needs to be more about sustained high revs not just straight hp. Don't get me wrong hp will help you pass in the straightaways but maintaining revs through the corners will win you the race.

Wrong, The 1st gen fully loaded Z/28 was the most expensive version of the camaro. A fully loaded 69 Z/28 was more expensive than a loaded 396 SS (those vette brakes were not cheap).

[chain777]

Originally Posted by truth411

Sorry But Heck no, The 1st gen Z/28 was about useing the best parts in GM's inventory to make the best possible track camaro. The 5th Gen should be the same, its a no brainer. 99% of people who would buy a Z/28 will take it to local track days on the weekend like me and would want a Z/28 design to give you the fastest possible lap times, That is the priority of the Z/28 above all else. Thus Magna ride is a no brainer.

That's fine for local track days, but not for competitive racing. What good is a suspension system on a track car if it's prohibited to be used for racing in most events? If the Z/28 is going to be a serious competitor to the Boss, it needs to be ready to race in competition as is.

Originally Posted by truth411

Wrong, The 1st gen fully loaded Z/28 was the most expensive version of the camaro. A fully loaded 69 Z/28 was more expensive than a loaded 396 SS (those vette brakes were not cheap).

But a ZL1 was more expensive than a Z/28, way more. It's not apples to apples, but neither is a comparison to 60's cars to todays cars. But the hierarchy still stands: SS < Z/28 < ZL1

[Number 3]

You guys are throwing 99% around an awful lot. Just sayin'

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by truth411

Sorry But Heck no, The 1st gen Z/28 was about useing the best parts in GM's inventory to make the best possible track camaro. The 5th Gen should be the same, its a no brainer. 99% of people who would buy a Z/28 will take it to local track days on the weekend like me and would want a Z/28 design to give you the fastest possible lap times, That is the priority of the Z/28 above all else. Thus Magna ride is a no brainer.

Put me in that 1% group.

Originally Posted by truth411

Wrong, The 1st gen fully loaded Z/28 was the most expensive version of the camaro. A fully loaded 69 Z/28 was more expensive than a loaded 396 SS (those vette brakes were not cheap).

ZL1's out priced Z/28's almost two to one.
Special Performance Equipment-Z/28 $458.15 - Sticker price-$3954.45
Special Performance Equipment-ZL1 $4160.15 - Sticker Price-$7269.35

Originally Posted by Number 3

You guys are throwing 99% around an awful lot. Just sayin'

Not me! I always give 110%.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by WYKOFF69Z

Not me! I always give 110%.

And we expect nothing less.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You guys are throwing 99% around an awful lot. Just sayin'

Someone just pull that number out of thin air and poeple quote it like the bible. The Magna Ride hasn't Stop the ZR1 From kicking A$$ and takeing names on the track, Heck ferrari uses the same system and I am unaware of competitions that forbid ferraris to compete competitely because of the suspension system it uses, same for the ZR1. No offense but you guys are full of Hot air.