Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Also factor this, if you are even slightly serious about road courses you would select neither of these overweight beasts.

Totally agree with you here. I've seen people take a 5th gen camaro down to around 3000 lbs including a full roll cage and safety equipment for road racing. And I'm sure you could do the same with a late model mustang. But you certainly wouldn't want to start that project by buying one of these new vehicles.

[Wondering]

After reading all the back & forth banter....I have to wonder what the stance would be(from both camps) if the roles were reversed? Say the ZL1 was the drag strip king & the GT500 dominated on the road course.

Would all the people here be lamenting the fact that while they absolutely busted the Gt500's a$$ at the strip,they were overmatched at a road course?

Somehow, I don't think so......

And the same goes for all the Mustang fans.

People like to believe that what they have is more important/better than the competion. If the roles were indeed reversed,all the guys here who are now road course fanatics wouldn't buy the GT500. And the Mustang guys certainly wouldn't buy a ZL1 just because it came from the factory with a 100 RWHP advantage.

A Hatfield is a Hatfield...and a McCoy will always be a McCoy.

Rock on

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by 2012 Mustang GT

But in the end, how many people on this forum or most other muscle car forums actually road race their cars? I can imgine its a far smaller number than those of us that drag race our cars.

Why is there an assumption that handling's only important if one is racing all out or on a road course? A car's handling allows one to be more confident on turns and rough surfaces at all speeds. It is always important.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

Why is there an assumption that handling's only important if one is racing all out or on a road course? A car's handling allows one to be more confident on turns and rough surfaces at all speeds. It is always important.

It's only not important when the car you cheer for doesn't do it well...

[Blue Menace]

Yes to the above two posts.

[2cnd chance]

It's what moves you (emotionally) that's important. I prefer to go for long drives in the countryside & mountains (and once in a while track it). Don't get me wrong I like lots of power, otherwise I'd stick with my built Miata. I'm holding out for the Z28 (LS7?) hoping it's NA and a next level above the 1LE.

Again it's what moves "YOU", and you'll never convince a "REAL" enthusiast any different.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

It's what moves you (emotionally) that's important. I prefer to go for long drives in the countryside & mountains (and once in a while track it). Don't get me wrong I like lots of power, otherwise I'd stick with my built Miata. I'm holding out for the Z28 (LS7?) hoping it's NA and a next level above the 1LE.

Again it's what moves "YOU", and you'll never convince a "REAL" enthusiast any different.

Same here. I love the ZL1 and all things Camaro, but i'd rather have NA cars with a suspension that handles like its on rails. Thank God for MR/PTM, but I was hoping they would put it on the 1LE. Maybe it will be on the Z28.


Yeah...i'm dreaming...I know, but I like dreaming.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by DanSS24

Same here. I love the ZL1 and all things Camaro, but i'd rather have NA cars with a suspension that handles like its on rails. Thank God for MR/PTM, but I was hoping they would put it on the 1LE. Maybe it will be on the Z28.


Yeah...i'm dreaming...I know, but I like dreaming.

Do you ever find yourself in the Z28 threads? If not your welcome. We are hoping on the NA (LS7) Camaro that handles like its on rails.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Do you ever find yourself in the Z28 threads? If not your welcome. We are hoping on the NA (LS7) Camaro that handles like its on rails.

I read some of the threads there, but haven't post much there. Hopefully waiting and wanting.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Let's wait to see some track testing results... and hold on the snarky remarks until then. Oh... and brake fade is not apparent after a 100-0 stop. Let's wait for the track tests.

I can say this much. GM knows what they are doing with the brakes. When they said they were preparing the ZL1 to be track-ready, they were serious. They have put the ZL1 through a 24-hour durability test on the track. Six drivers with four-hour stints each. They replaced the brake pads after every three hours of track use. It wasn't done to prove a point. It was done to better develop the PTM/MR and track durabilty of the vehicle.





By the way, there are luxury sports sedans out there that can't even go a few laps around a track without severe brake fade.

I was replying to his question about brake ducts, not ripping on the ZL1 brakes. So instead we'll assume that Ford doesn't know what they're doing with the brakes? A fixed caliper applies pressure more evenly to both pads and can accommodate uneven wear more effectively than a sliding caliper. Aluminum also dissipates heat faster than steel or iron. Also, like I said before, the zl1 is stopping 7% more weight which will require more braking force with every stop from any speed. I can't tell you for sure which car will resist fade better overall, but I can tell you the fact that the camaro has brake ducts doesn't mean it's going to be the Camaro

Originally Posted by oortcloud

I stand by all my

I wasn't aware that a sliding caliper would reduce brake fade, pad wear, or improve heat dissipation. Care to post a couple of links so we can read up on it?

Edit: I mean to a degree that would mean they have a significant brake advantage and/or would not need brake ducts on a road course.

See italicized text above.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Do you ever find yourself in the Z28 threads? If not your welcome. We are hoping on the NA (LS7) Camaro that handles like its on rails.

I'm with you. I just hope there is some news soon. In the next few months I am planning on buying a Camaro. So I will either get a 1LE or wait for a Z if they announce it.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by newmoon

It's only not important when the car you cheer for doesn't do it well...

So the gt500 doesn't handle well now because the zl1 handles better? That must mean the zl1 is slow as hell in a straight line come on now. I think the biggest problem we have here is the assumptions haven't changed at all, they have just become even more inflated. Nothing has really changed from this review other than getting the opinion of a few mag journalists. Anyone with a brain knew the gt500 would kill in a straight line and the zl1 would handle better. We still haven't seen enough real racing to determine which is faster on a road course, and even then different courses will benefit one more than the other. The trap speeds show that from a roll the distance between zl1 and gt500 will be even greater than in a 1/4, but the handling tests show the zl1 will hold more corner speed. If the slight braking advantage of the gt500 holds up in racing conditions, these cars could be VERY close on almost any track. Both have major advantages and both have key hurdles to overcome.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I was replying to his question about brake ducts, not ripping on the ZL1 brakes. So instead we'll assume that Ford doesn't know what they're doing with the brakes? A fixed caliper applies pressure more evenly to both pads and can accommodate uneven wear more effectively than a sliding caliper. Aluminum also dissipates heat faster than steel or iron. Also, like I said before, the zl1 is stopping 7% more weight which will require more braking force with every stop from any speed. I can't tell you for sure which car will resist fade better overall, but I can tell you the fact that the camaro has brake ducts doesn't mean it's going to be the Camaro

See italicized text above.

My whole point all along is that the brakes on both cars are about even. I've never said in any comment anywhere that the camaro has superior braking. But I saw several people say the gt500 has superior brakes. Although we'll see more once they hit the tracks.

Brake ducts are common on track cars for fixed caliper piston brakes. So I don't think there is anything unusual expecting this. And anyone tracking the gt500 on a regular basis would surely add brake ducts.

btw the weight difference is 227 lbs, which comes out to a 5.5% diff, not 7%.

When comparing curb weights you need to do them at the same time. This is because a full talk of gas weighs different at different temperatures. It doesn't change weight once filled, but the volume changes with temp. This is why you see different curb weights from different reviews. You need to do them at the same time to be accurate.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm with you. I just hope there is some news soon. In the next few months I am planning on buying a Camaro. So I will either get a 1LE or wait for a Z if they announce it.

If you really want a 5Gen Z28 hold on a little longer. Remember the every 6 month release for the Camaro. Also it will have to be announced soon as time is running out.