Another reason against EVs

[litle88]

^^^^lol

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by derklug

OK, this is going to be longish, so bear with me.

My problems with EV's lies in the fact that resources are being forced into the development of these vehicles by state and federal governments. EV's still require fossil fuels to operate as their charging comes off the grid powered by coal, oil, or natural gas. Hydro, nuke, solar, and wind make up a minority of the total world output of energy such that they really don't make much of a dent in CO2 emissions. Solar and wind energy have promising growth potential, but still need to be backed up with conventional powerplants to cover cloudy days and still winds.

So, now we buy our EV, and we still have to buy a conventional or hybrid to take any trips outside of the cars range. So we are doubling the environmental footprint of the EV on the supply side, making it even less environmentally friendly. And I won't even get into the disposal side of the batteries.

I am a firm believer that the market will dictate what manufacturers produce, and if left alone would find the best answer to dwindling supplies of fossil fuels. Energy policies set by whomever donates to the winning candidate are not going to get the best end result. Government demanding you build EV's will result in better, more efficient EV's, but could blind industry to a different solution that is better.

while I don't disagree with you, I will say this.

I have solar generation on my home, I generate 30kw/h per day, I use about 14kw/h per day on most days, a bit closer to 20 on days over 95°. I have a reserve of over 120kw/h right now from power made and not used.

For me an electric car like the tesla, or even the volt is ideal as I commute under 15 miles a day to work and generate my own power, more than enough to charge the vehicle and stay away from power created by gas or coal..

my situation is ideal for an electric vehicle owner, because I would truly be able to charge it using solar and not add to the demand on the supply side.

and it is something I am looking at for a commuter vehicle.

personally I wish someone would make a convertible EV, because I would love to have the best of both worlds, but I guess the lack of aero-dynamics makes that a near impossibility.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by derklug

I am a firm believer that the market will dictate what manufacturers produce, and if left alone would find the best answer to dwindling supplies of fossil fuels. Energy policies set by whomever donates to the winning candidate are not going to get the best end result. Government demanding you build EV's will result in better, more efficient EV's, but could blind industry to a different solution that is better.

The problem with this line of thinking is that technology takes time. At the moment the market for EVs and alternative fuel vehicles is quite small and not profitable. The big profit margins are still in pick ups, at least for US based auto manufacturers. Without subsidization and other policies encouraging development of alternative fuel technology, the investment in R&D for theses technologies would be very small. Firms can't justify expenditures until there is adequate demand to offset the cost of these expenditures as investors are inclined to favor relatively short-term profits (one generation) over long-term stability (multiple generations). Without research now, there will be a lag time between the shift in demand and the availability of technology to satisfy the change. Our economy is so dependent on oil that the oil-shock from peak oil could do absolutely insane damage to our economy if our industries aren't prepared in advance. Time is the issue.

Imagine if we hit peak oil today and every day from now until the end of time oil supply decreases. It would take time for public and private transport technology to reach a point where current transportation can be emulated with energy sources alternative to oil. What happens in that lag time? Consumption goes way down because people can't afford to drive. This brings output down, dragging investment and savings rates with it. Deflation sets in and we're in a recession. However, unlike the OAPEC crisis of the '70s, oil prices aren't political anymore, global supply figure are driving them up. Oil prices will continue to rise even despite decreasing demand and we see a deflationary spiral while consumption continues to drop because alternative power sources still aren't cost effective. Depression. Pffffffttttt.

Basically, because our economic output is so heavily dependent on oil there is an impending oil-shock that will have a negative impact on our economic output on a global scale regardless of how we tackle the shift. Rather than experiencing that shock in a matter of a few years and driving the global economy into total depression until a few firms can lead industries out, subsidization and policy can spread out the impact of that impending oil-shock over decades and dampen the effect on growth.

[MikeSVX]

Just saw that North Caroline wants to add $50 for Hybrids owners and $100 for EVs owners to register their vehicles. They say it's because they pay less in fuel taxes and those fuel taxes are used to pay for road repairs. Lol

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

So trade it in and buy one. Then you can go talk about gas mileage and saving the environment on a Volt forum.

I've considered it...but it doesn't make financial sense considering my V6 Camaro runs like a top... not to mention the 556HP V Coupe sitting in the garage beside it.. or the 330HP Tahoe.. would kinda make me look like a Hypocrite. Sorry Clueboy.. but I burn waaay more gas that U do in your Pony car. I just don't hold it up like some silly badge

[MikeSVX]

Around here the people running around in the EVs and Hybrids are the same ones with Subarbuns, Escalades, and H2s sitting beside them in the garage.