Volt concept;; Then & Now

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM doesn't even make money off the 1st generation of Volts so your conspiracy theory about GM taking the easy/cheap way out is BS.

And what works for you doesn't work for the majority of Americans. That's something every automotive enthusiast needs to learn.

They did take the cheap way ... but only because they're being smart. They could have done exactly as Markal wanted, but in the estimated volumes for the 1st gen Volt it would probably cost at least as much as a Corvette (probably more) before the batteries and hybrid drivetrain are added. At that point, they'd have 2 choices: either charge another ~$30,000 for the Volt or eat an extra $30,000 on every Volt sold. Do the first and hardly anyone will buy it. Do the second and GM would be on the fast track back to bankruptcy.

[Markal]

FenwickHockey65,
I'm glad you love GM and think all they do is golden. I own a GM product...a 2010 Summit White customized LS Camaro....and I love it. The enginering and techonolgy are superb. GM did a fine job...but, they are far from perfect. Yes, technology costs money as does research and development. To develop a car from concept to production can cost millions....can they re-coup the costs?...only if sales are high. GM fell under pressure from environmental groups and the Government to produce an electrical, low emission car quickly....they did what was expected....the enviromentalists are happy and the Gov. gives tax deductions for purchase of this vehicle.....sorry, its still ugly. IMHO the concept with many improvements would sell better. To say they would loose money on an improved concept model with high technology is wrong...who knows...they didn't do it??? They only made the soccer mom family model.....any comparison is....well....not there.
As far as "What works for you doesn't work for the majority of americans".
I'm an average Joe...more average than you know....so what works for me DOES work for most americans!
Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a moron, a neaderthal, wrong, stupid or uninformed....we just differ in opinions...we are both free thinking Americans. Don't hate me....I don't hate you.
Cost: The Volt is expensive and you could by an older model Corvette cheaper than a Volt......
GM will never be on the fast tract to bancruptcy...they are backed by the U.S. Gov....thus G.M. Government Motors!!!
Can we agree by saying the 2010 Camaro ROCKS? !!!

Just my opinion....thats all....and I don't know everything....I don't have all the answers...I'm still searching for many unanswered questions......

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Markal

FenwickHockey65,
I'm glad you love GM and think all they do is golden. I own a GM product...a 2010 Summit White LS Camaro....and I love it. The enginering and techonolgy are superb. GM did a fine job...but, they are far from perfect. Yes, technology costs money as does research and development. To develop a car from concept to production can cost millions....can they re-coup the costs?...only if sales are high. GM fell under pressure from environmental groups and the Government to produce an electrical, low emission car quickly....they did what was expected....the enviromentalists are happy and the Gov. gives tax deductions for purchase of this vehicle.....sorry, its still ugly. IMHO the concept with many improvements would sell better. To say they would loose money on an improved concept model with high technology is wrong...who knows??? They only made the soccer mom family model.....so there is nothing to compare.
Just my opinion....thats all.

What sells more, Corvettes or Malibus?

[FenwickHockey65]

If you honestly think that I believe everything GM does is golden, then you don't know me at all. I still shake my head at a LOT of stupid decisions GM makes.

That said, the production Volt is the best car GM could have produced from the Voltec program. There is no questioning that. Whine all you want, the concept was and still is a brick, and no amount of improvements could have made it come close to performing as well the production version.

And again, just because you don't need to carry extra passengers with you doesn't mean that goes for everyone. That's exactly why I despise discussing cars like this on this website, the only thing people here care about is RWD, a V8, and going fast. Guess what? The vast majority of Americans could not give two sh*ts how fast a car can go, they want a comfortable, functional, fuel efficient car. If you see that as wrong, then that's your own damn problem, not GM's.

[Markal]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

If you honestly think that I believe everything GM does is golden, then you don't know me at all. I still shake my head at a LOT of stupid decisions GM makes.

That said, the production Volt is the best car GM could have produced from the Voltec program. There is no questioning that. Whine all you want, the concept was and still is a brick, and no amount of improvements could have made it come close to performing as well the production version.

And again, just because you don't need to carry extra passengers with you doesn't mean that goes for everyone. That's exactly why I despise discussing cars like this on this website, the only thing people here care about is RWD, a V8, and going fast. Guess what? The vast majority of Americans could not give two sh*ts how fast a car can go, they want a comfortable, functional, fuel efficient car. If you see that as wrong, then that's your own damn problem, not GM's.

Wow...
To say: "Whine all you want, the concept was and still is a brick, and no amount of improvements could have made it come close to performing as well the production version".

That is like saying GM engineers are idiots and could not improve on a cool design. I disagree...with more time and more money...well, anything is possible. To keep repeating "Brick"....C'mon, they could have improved the Concept wedge design....they just choose to place it on a platform that didn't need retooling or remachining in their factories....something easier and cheaper. If we all played it safe there would be no world records....no best of...no awards....no recocognition...everything would be sub-par. I don't care how fast a car goes. I care about how it looks and its performance.
The problem of what I buy is not my problem its GM's and every car manufacturer's problem. They must figure out what I will buy and it won't be the average looking, Asian copied design, Chevy VOLT!

[FenwickHockey65]

Then don't buy it. It's obvious you aren't even in the Volt's target market. In the meantime, the Volt is destroying its only competitor, the Nissan Leaf, in sales.

Every post you make just proves you don't understand what goes into engineering and producing a car. You think that GM can just start up a car on a production line as long as it rides the same platform as an existing product already being produced there? You still have to retool the entire assembly line to build a new product, it doesn't matter what platform it rides on. Furthermore, Volt is produced at Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly, a facility that builds the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS, neither of which are Delta-II cars. The only other Delta-II car in the US, the Cruze, is built at Lordstown Assembly. So GM would've had to retool the assembly plant for the Volt no matter what platform they decided to use.

The concept DOES NOT WORK. I don't know what else I can do to pound this into your skull. Improving the concept would result with the production Volt due to the insane amount of aerodynamic changes that the concept would need.

You keep whining about how good a wedge shape would be. Let's look at an example.

The Corvette Z06 is what you're describing as a "wedge-shaped car." And it is VERY aerodynamic with a CD of .34. The Volt, on the other hand, has a CD of .26. The Volt's teardrop shape is simply more aerodynamic than a wedge shape.

Seriously, you're trying to play armchair engineer here. The Volt is arguably one of the most influential cars GM has ever built. The entire world had their eyes on GM as they developed and launched this car. If you honestly think that GM's sole motivation for redesigning the Volt from the original concept was simply a matter of cost and profit, then you're delusional.

[Markal]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

What sells more, Corvettes or Malibus?

Both sales are high....Corvettes are high end expensive two seater sport cars...Malibus (sp) are mid sized and lower priced than Corvettes, family type cars...some with super engines. Not sure what you are comparing here or what it has to do with this discussion? Prices do effect sales....
The Corvette is considered a high end "Sports Car"....the Malibu is considered a mid size "Pony Car"??? Corvettes have their market and Malibus have their market. What are you trying to say? The concept Volt is the Corvette and the production model Volt is the Malibu.....Nah....no way...the production Volt is the Cruze on battery power, not the Malibu.

[FenwickHockey65]

We're having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

[Markal]

If you honestly think that GM's sole motivation for redesigning the Volt from the original concept was simply a matter of cost and profit, then you're delusional.

O.K. you must be right...business does not want to make a profit....ever.
I am delusional....

FenwickHockey65
Who said I was unarmed???

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Markal

If you honestly think that GM's sole motivation for redesigning the Volt from the original concept was simply a matter of cost and profit, then you're delusional.

O.K. you must be right...business does not want to make a profit....ever.
I am delusional....

A profitable Volt won't come until the 2nd generation. GM acknowledged that waaaaaaaay before the 1st generation was launched. Their sole task was to lay a strong foundation for the 2nd gen, which they accomplished.

Originally Posted by Markal

FenwickHockey65
Who said I was unarmed???

Keep posting. You'll continue to prove my point.

[IamJacksCamaro]

I like the concept much better than the production Volt, but I understand why they had to restyle it.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Markal

Both sales are high....Corvettes are high end expensive two seater sport cars...Malibus (sp) are mid sized and lower priced than Corvettes, family type cars...some with super engines. Not sure what you are comparing here or what it has to do with this discussion? Prices do effect sales....
The Corvette is considered a high end "Sports Car"....the Malibu is considered a mid size "Pony Car"??? Corvettes have their market and Malibus have their market. What are you trying to say? The concept Volt is the Corvette and the production model Volt is the Malibu.....Nah....no way...the production Volt is the Cruze on battery power, not the Malibu.

You brought up sales, specifically that their only hope of recouping costs are if sales are high. I agree. The closest car that GM sells to what you wanted in terms of price and practicality is the Corvette, so I used it. But your vision of the Volt would certainly cost far more than a regular Corvette.

I used the Malibu because the Cobalt and Cruze didn't have a full year of sales, so using them to compare sales isn't exactly fair but the Malibu and the Cruze have been selling in roughly the same volume for the last few months (at least in the US) so I'd say it is a valid substitution as another non-threatening family sedan in the GM line-up.

I'm also glad to see you say that prices affect sales. This is one of the biggest reasons for GM to have the Volt share platforms with the Cruze. Going with a unique platform to accommodate the unique style of the concept would drive costs way up. I'm thinking in the 70-80 grand range IF it could maintain the volume that GM estimates the Volt can sell in. But the relationship goes both ways ... since price affects sales, estimated volume also affects pricing. Fewer people would buy a car at $80k than they would at $40k, so to compensate they'd have to jack the price up even farther to the point where they'd probably have to have supercar pricing on the Volt and move only a few hundred units a year ... or just eat the cost and lose billions on the program.