Which FMIC with D1SC?

[78novacaine]

So I'm at the point I need to upgrade the IC on my setup. Making 7xx whp off a d1sc blower @ 13 psi and IAT's are through the roof. I've narrowed it down to a few options, trying to decide between them. Car is a street car with A/C so it needs to still get enough airflow to the radiator/condenser for that. I will be swapping to the RSM tubular crash bar so clearance shouldn't be an issue with any of them.

AGP Race Intercooler

On3 6" Intercooler

Treadstone 1045

Treadstone 1245

I've read that my current piping will mate up to the treadstone units without modification, so right now I'm leaning that direction, but I can definitely be swayed to the others.

[Bildo]

Hell I use the Stage II race intercooler that came with a D1 system, I sold the D1 before install and bought a F1-A with less than 50 miles on it. I now max that out on a 7.0L w/LS3 top end, factory bumper brace, radiator, and A/C... zero issues, but I run pump E-85 with a flex fuel sensor and a Squash dual pump setup on a hobbs switch. I wouldn't rule out flex fuel, or even meth injection to help with the intake temps.

[78novacaine]

Originally Posted by Bildo

Hell I use the Stage II race intercooler that came with a D1 system, I sold the D1 before install and bought a F1-A with less than 50 miles on it. I now max that out on a 7.0L w/LS3 top end, factory bumper brace, radiator, and A/C... zero issues, but I run pump E-85 with a flex fuel sensor and a Squash dual pump setup on a hobbs switch. I wouldn't rule out flex fuel, or even meth injection to help with the intake temps.

I run e85 already, I'm not getting any KR from the IAT's, just down on power. The car made 40 whp more on the dyno from the final tuning run just letting it cool down with no other changes. From my research it looks like you have to ditch the front crash bar entirely with the procharger race intercooler, and it's also 2× the cost of all the other options I'm looking at for little to no improvement.

[dreksnot]

Where is your MAF (temp sensor) located in your setup?

[78novacaine]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Where is your MAF (temp sensor) located in your setup?

I'm not sure offhand, but I don't think it makes a difference at this point. If it was in a bad location I'm confident the tuner would have said so. The car is definitely down on power from high temps, and my research has determined without a doubt that the current IC I have is too small for my setup. Procharger themselves state it is only enough for completely stock/mildly modified applications. My car is cammed/FBO/e85 making ~2× the boost that this IC is designed for with the kit.

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by 78novacaine

I'm not sure offhand, but I don't think it makes a difference at this point. If it was in a bad location I'm confident the tuner would have said so. The car is definitely down on power from high temps, and my research has determined without a doubt that the current IC I have is too small for my setup. Procharger themselves state it is only enough for completely stock/mildly modified applications. My car is cammed/FBO/e85 making ~2× the boost that this IC is designed for with the kit.

Something I found very interesting is that when I moved/swapped my location/to an aftermarket IAT sensor from the usual MAF location to just behind the throttle body, and upgraded to a fast acting RIFE temperature sensor, my IAT's dropped significantly. I believe, more or less, that the new sensor is magnitudes faster reacting to the temperature changes (not allowing for heat soaking the sensor). For instance, when at an idle (throttle plates closed), the IAT's increased as it has low airflow (e.g, from a little bebop around town, IATs at 136F start of just sitting there after the cruise, rising to 158F before shutting off the motor after 3-4min of idling) . At cruise, they were lower but still at a relatively moderate level (throttle plates nearly closed) (while cruising that day the IATs hung around 113F). But, when I laid into the pedal, the IAT's dropped quickly as more air flowed across the sensor, and in boost (depending on how much since I'm turbo), the temperatures started significantly lower then slowly climbed (dropped quickly to 91F then slowly rose to 94F with 13psi boost from 40mph to 97mph), but never to the point when the OEM MAF sensor displayed. Months later, on top of moving the sensor, I did add water/meth injection and it clearly shows how that has affected (kept my high boost level temperatures very much controlled). I'm just bringing this to the table as I think moving the sensor and changing to a quick reacting one provides way better IAT monitoring and controls. I'm a true believer for placing a dedicated IAT sensor where it should be, and the right sensor. BTW, I have a heavy cast aluminum intake manifold which is a super heat soaking bastard, but the sensor appears to only be interesting in measuring the airflow passing it rather than allowing the sensor mount soak up the heat energy.

[78novacaine]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Something I found very interesting is that when I moved/swapped my location/to an aftermarket IAT sensor from the usual MAF location to just behind the throttle body, and upgraded to a fast acting RIFE temperature sensor, my IAT's dropped significantly. I believe, more or less, that the new sensor is magnitudes faster reacting to the temperature changes (not allowing for heat soaking the sensor). For instance, when at an idle (throttle plates closed), the IAT's increased as it has low airflow (e.g, from a little bebop around town, IATs at 136F start of just sitting there after the cruise, rising to 158F before shutting off the motor after 3-4min of idling) . At cruise, they were lower but still at a relatively moderate level (throttle plates nearly closed) (while cruising that day the IATs hung around 113F). But, when I laid into the pedal, the IAT's dropped quickly as more air flowed across the sensor, and in boost (depending on how much since I'm turbo), the temperatures started significantly lower then slowly climbed (dropped quickly to 91F then slowly rose to 94F with 13psi boost from 40mph to 97mph), but never to the point when the OEM MAF sensor displayed. Months later, on top of moving the sensor, I did add water/meth injection and it clearly shows how that has affected (kept my high boost level temperatures very much controlled). I'm just bringing this to the table as I think moving the sensor and changing to a quick reacting one provides way better IAT monitoring and controls. I'm a true believer for placing a dedicated IAT sensor where it should be, and the right sensor. BTW, I have a heavy cast aluminum intake manifold which is a super heat soaking bastard, but the sensor appears to only be interesting in measuring the airflow passing it rather than allowing the sensor mount soak up the heat energy.

Interesting read, and definitely something for me to keep in mind. So my most recent data logs, I was showing around 10-15⁰ over ambient while cruising. Then when I would stop to make a dig hit, the temps would go from ~90⁰ up to about 210-215⁰ at the top of 4th, then as soon as I let off the throttle they would immediately begin dropping and be back down to normal cruising IAT's well under a minute. So I don't think any type of heat soak is my issue. This cycle repeats itself even when making 2-3 passes back to back (2-3 minutes between passes at most). I'm absolutely confident at this point that I am just moving far too much air for this little cooler to have a chance of keeping up.

[4SFED6.0]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Something I found very interesting is that when I moved/swapped my location/to an aftermarket IAT sensor from the usual MAF location to just behind the throttle body, and upgraded to a fast acting RIFE temperature sensor, my IAT's dropped significantly. I believe, more or less, that the new sensor is magnitudes faster reacting to the temperature changes (not allowing for heat soaking the sensor). For instance, when at an idle (throttle plates closed), the IAT's increased as it has low airflow (e.g, from a little bebop around town, IATs at 136F start of just sitting there after the cruise, rising to 158F before shutting off the motor after 3-4min of idling) . At cruise, they were lower but still at a relatively moderate level (throttle plates nearly closed) (while cruising that day the IATs hung around 113F). But, when I laid into the pedal, the IAT's dropped quickly as more air flowed across the sensor, and in boost (depending on how much since I'm turbo), the temperatures started significantly lower then slowly climbed (dropped quickly to 91F then slowly rose to 94F with 13psi boost from 40mph to 97mph), but never to the point when the OEM MAF sensor displayed. Months later, on top of moving the sensor, I did add water/meth injection and it clearly shows how that has affected (kept my high boost level temperatures very much controlled). I'm just bringing this to the table as I think moving the sensor and changing to a quick reacting one provides way better IAT monitoring and controls. I'm a true believer for placing a dedicated IAT sensor where it should be, and the right sensor. BTW, I have a heavy cast aluminum intake manifold which is a super heat soaking bastard, but the sensor appears to only be interesting in measuring the airflow passing it rather than allowing the sensor mount soak up the heat energy.

Does the sensor scaling need to be adjusted when using the RIFE sensor?

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by 4SFED6.0

Does the sensor scaling need to be adjusted when using the RIFE sensor?

Yes, RIFE provides that data.

[eLeSthree]

I know I sound like a broken record and the worlds biggest salesman for ESS, but show me another setup making 1100+whp without meth with IAT's peaking at 98 on the dyno. Their intercooler is a beast and fits behind the stock crash bar. Of course the size of the blower and its effeciency plays into it as well.

During a private track rental I did 4 hotlaps and IATs climbed to 140. That's the hottest I have ever seen them.

[78novacaine]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Something I found very interesting is that when I moved/swapped my location/to an aftermarket IAT sensor from the usual MAF location to just behind the throttle body, and upgraded to a fast acting RIFE temperature sensor, my IAT's dropped significantly. I believe, more or less, that the new sensor is magnitudes faster reacting to the temperature changes (not allowing for heat soaking the sensor). For instance, when at an idle (throttle plates closed), the IAT's increased as it has low airflow (e.g, from a little bebop around town, IATs at 136F start of just sitting there after the cruise, rising to 158F before shutting off the motor after 3-4min of idling) . At cruise, they were lower but still at a relatively moderate level (throttle plates nearly closed) (while cruising that day the IATs hung around 113F). But, when I laid into the pedal, the IAT's dropped quickly as more air flowed across the sensor, and in boost (depending on how much since I'm turbo), the temperatures started significantly lower then slowly climbed (dropped quickly to 91F then slowly rose to 94F with 13psi boost from 40mph to 97mph), but never to the point when the OEM MAF sensor displayed. Months later, on top of moving the sensor, I did add water/meth injection and it clearly shows how that has affected (kept my high boost level temperatures very much controlled). I'm just bringing this to the table as I think moving the sensor and changing to a quick reacting one provides way better IAT monitoring and controls. I'm a true believer for placing a dedicated IAT sensor where it should be, and the right sensor. BTW, I have a heavy cast aluminum intake manifold which is a super heat soaking bastard, but the sensor appears to only be interesting in measuring the airflow passing it rather than allowing the sensor mount soak up the heat energy.

How did you install the sensor in the charge pipe? I pulled my bumper off after work today and found the MAF/IAT sensor mounted in the IC that I planned on ripping out first thing tomorrow. Obviously I now need to figure out a way to get it installed in the charge pipe and sealed.