Is 4200lbs. a deal breaker?

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

The Boss is far closer to track ready than a ZL1 is....can't debate that fact.
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2...Boss_Specs.pdf

Forged internals, a 7500 rpm redline and a 3632 pound curb weight.....Sounds like a winning combo. F - Bod father...something along these lines for the Z28 would make a TON of people happy. Can't get to 3632? Drop a LS7 in.

We'll see though..

people would like this for sure! I doubt it will happen w/ this platform though.

Crowley

[Arachnyd]

Why do people care about the weight?

because they ASSUME it effects handling performance.

What if it didnt?

Aren't skid pad numbers and traction numbers more important than weight?

Things like the magnetic suspension control are like a football player wearing cleats. Do you want a 175 lb WR with cleats on or a 150 lb wr without them? Your going to argue "thats not apples to apples- cleats are essential"- but thats exactly what your doing here complaining about the weight.

Now if you live on an island and the ferry has a 4000 lb weight restriction on carrying your car to your house, OK then you have a legitimate argument for weight,

but its unfair to argue that a weight is a problem since weight doesnt directly equate to any performance statistic unless all other components stay the same. However, a 4200 lb car with "cleats" may beat out a 3800 car without them, and I think we need to see the whole package work together before we put too much value in a statistic anchored to just some traditional performance myth.

(heck, isnt that like arguing that a V8 will take a V6 any day just because its a V8? Or a V6 will have better fuel economy than a V8 just because it has two fewer cylinders??? but no, my 426 HP SS gets better fuel economy than my old 300 HP V6, and thats becasue HP and number of cylinders are not actual direct causes of fuel loss once modern technology is accounted for)

[woodstock]

Considering the C-5 and C-6 vette weighs in at around 3200 pounds that seems like a lot.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo

... but its unfair to argue that a weight is a problem since weight doesn't directly equate to any performance statistic unless all other components stay the same. However, a 4200 lb car with "cleats" may beat out a 3800 car without them, and I think we need to see the whole package work together before we put too much value in a statistic anchored to just some traditional performance myth.

I think that people are spending far too much time worrying about the ZL1's weight at this point without knowing what the ZL1's performance numbers are. After all the performance numbers are what really matters.

[ironpeddler]

Are you trying to say that weight does not effect handling performance? Or that "weight" can be defined as a traditional performance myth?? For real, are you serious????

I can't believe stuff like this is even written in a forum like this. The heck is wrong with you people. Of course freaking weight is one of the biggest performance factors you have. One of the biggest, if not right up top as the biggest and you want to call it a myth.

I would say, on these forums, espcially ZL1 topics, that not enough people are concerned with weight and to many people are concerned with things like magnetic ride control or sunroofs or colors. Yes, to put it bluntly 4200lbs. is a deal breaker unless you plan on completely gutting you car and making into a pure race car, non-street legal. 4200 lbs. is like a freaking river barge trying to be a speed boat. It ain't going to happen.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by ironpeddler

Are you trying to say that weight does not effect handling performance? Or that "weight" can be defined as a traditional performance myth?? For real, are you serious????

I can't believe stuff like this is even written in a forum like this. The heck is wrong with you people. Of course freaking weight is one of the biggest performance factors you have. One of the biggest, if not right up top as the biggest and you want to call it a myth.

I would say, on these forums, espcially ZL1 topics, that not enough people are concerned with weight and to many people are concerned with things like magnetic ride control or sunroofs or colors. Yes, to put it bluntly 4200lbs. is a deal breaker unless you plan on completely gutting you car and making into a pure race car, non-street legal. 4200 lbs. is like a freaking river barge trying to be a speed boat. It ain't going to happen.

I don't think that anyone said that weight doesn't affect performance. Some individuals have suggested that before people start whining about the ZL1's weight, let's find out what the ZL1's weight really is (4200 pounds is a number that was in an article on the internet, not an officially released Chevrolet number), and let's see what the ZL1's performance numbers actually are. If the performance numbers are better than the competition's and better than one's expectations, then the ZL1 is a win.

[LOWDOWN]

I'm sure, when all is said and done, those seeking the actual "ZL1 Experience" (and have the wherewithall to pay for one) will vote with their wallets...and those who seek "something else" will, as well. That's the way the Market works...

Let's hope that "something else" is right behind the ZL1 in the "Camaro pipeline"...

[bada]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

This is from Dragtimes.com. I have an auto so subtract about 17% for drivetrain loss and you get 631. Not sure what formula you're using. So, in theory, I should be much faster. This is from 4 days ago.
1/4 mile time: 10.22
Trap Speed:132
Weight of vehicle
with driver (pounds):4170


Horsepower @ flywheel = 760.32
RWHP = 631

The 10.19 from last Oct comes out to be 755 FWHP or 627 RWHP

Calculate 1/4 Mile ET From Horsepower

Car weight: 4170

Wheel horsepower

Flywheel horsepower: 760.32

1/4 Mile elapsed time = 10.82

This calculator estimates your quarter mile elapsed time (ET) when given the weight of the car and flywheel or wheel horsepower. A 17% driveline loss is assumed for flywheel HP.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

I think that horse may have already left the barn.............

Pretty much how the entire 5th gen experience has been for me from GM.

Thanks for nothing.

Meanwhile, the community around this car provided me with all the help I could imagine and more.

Way to reward customers who bailed your bankrupt company out the hole....My dad worked for GM for 30 years and is appalled by the way GM conducts itself these days.

And before you bust out the " you modded it " line, there were issues long before anything was modded.

Further more, GM MUST prove the mods caused the failure.

Good luck making that 4200 pound pig fly reliably.

[strokerls1]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

x 1,000,000,000



.........

There are so many things wrong on this thread that my head almost exploded.......


OnStar does not track everything you do.......if the vehicle meets certain thresholds, OnStar will, indeed call to see if you were just involved in an accident....that threshold alerts OnStar that something unusual just happened - (I was doing some filming for the company -- and the Impala SS that I was driving would alert OnStar when I put the car into a controlled skid that exceeded the threshold.....but it's not like OnStar is tracking everything you do.

I cannot comment to what Mercedes does with their services - but rest assured that we do no such thing unless you call and ask us to run a diagnostic.

There is no one at GM on this site that is cancelling warranties based on what we read--

The black box only monitors the last few seconds - it continually records over itself.

We CAN look to see if you've modified the ECM -- but we do not record the past hour /hours/weeks/months of your driving habits.


I just read an in-depth article (Weekly Standard?) about the fact that we as a society want to have 'clear cut' rules and regulations - and governments continually try to 'legislate' for any unknowns - and frankly it's impossible to do so.......we could write a warranty that takes up 100 pages - and someone would do something that wasn't addressed............

I can tell you this: We pay warranty claims for breakage that we probably shouldn't....it's just good business..........believe me, I've seen it for many years..... I also know that some will intentionally try to mislead - such as the posts that tell people how to put the car back to stock prior to taking it in for a warranty claim....(and you'd be surprised at what I've witnessed at various drag strips --people doing things that are just incredibly foolish - and then trying to pawn it off as a quality issue...) ...interesting how that seems to be OK to some......the reality is that the employees of GM are accountable to the stockholders of the company -- meaning that they need to protect the stockholder equity. It's the law. We have fired employees for NOT following that edict. If you are a citizen of the United States or Canada - you are a stockholder.

What's true: we could pay every warranty claim that comes down the pike - but that eventually means that the price of each new car or truck will go up......this isn't a 'rule' or 'law' for GM - it's true of any manufacturer......we really do try to do the right thing. Are we successful 100 percent of the time? No, unfortunately not...... I can also tell you that every manufacturer has sites like this one - and those sites have the same complaints......(some have many more!)

And to the person who told me "not to go there.." .....you mod the car, you run the risk of no warranty. (We can't be responsible for something we didn't validate......) (It's amazing the number of emails I've gotten over the past couple of months.......)

Onstar has the ability to track all things on your vehicle. Obviously they are not going to sit there and log every second you get in your car. All I am saying is that they have the ability to do so if it came down to it.

I know a thing or two about warrenty claims. I know about keeping customers happy and I espicially know about customer abuse and claims...it all differs. AMG's are the worst but we realize those customers are enthusiast and we will do whatever we can (within reason) to make sure they are repeat customers...we do track days with them.

This car is amazing. It has all the right features. Less weight would make it even better, and much much more "ahead of the game" as far as acceleration goes. Im sure its blistering fast as is. You guys are the professionals. I know you have limits when it comes to maintaining quality when reducing weight. I bet this argument gets even more heated with the engineers, than here on C5.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by strokerls1

I know a thing or two about warrenty claims. I know about keeping customers happy and I espicially know about customer abuse and claims...it all differs. AMG's are the worst but we realize those customers are enthusiast and we will do whatever we can (within reason) to make sure they are repeat customers...we do track days with them.

You mean you don't tell them to call an 800 number when you're broken down 600 miles from home with the entire high ranking AMG staff on hand?

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Pretty much how the entire 5th gen experience has been for me from GM.

Thanks for nothing.

Meanwhile, the community around this car provided me with all the help I could imagine and more.

Way to reward customers who bailed your bankrupt company out the hole....My dad worked for GM for 30 years and is appalled by the way GM conducts itself these days.

And before you bust out the " you modded it " line, there were issues long before anything was modded.

Further more, GM MUST prove the mods caused the failure.

Good luck making that 4200 pound pig fly reliably.

I don't want to stick my nose in to this because it's not my business but that experience really made me re-evaluate my opinions on General Motors.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

I don't want to stick my nose in to this because it's not my business but that experience really made me re-evaluate my opinions on General Motors.

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I don't think that anyone said that weight doesn't affect performance. Some individuals have suggested that before people start whining about the ZL1's weight, let's find out what the ZL1's weight really is (4200 pounds is a number that was in an article on the internet, not an officially released Chevrolet number), and let's see what the ZL1's performance numbers actually are. If the performance numbers are better than the competition's and better than one's expectations, then the ZL1 is a win.

pretty much what goldenbear said. I'm not trying to say at ALL that weight doesn't effect performance. I know it does... however, adding 100 lbs (made up number) for the magnetic suspension MAY offer better handling performance at 4200 lbs than the car would have at 4100 lbs. You can not tell me a 4000 car WILL handle better than a 4200 lb car without taking into consideration a lot more than weight. Yes a 4200 lb corvette that is the same as a 3600 lb corvette in every way shape and form except it has 800 lbs of lead weight in it will probably not handle as well as the 3600 lb corvette, but a 4200 lb modern design magnetic controlled suspension with active traction management, LSD, and other modern technology will out handle a 3800 lb 1969 camaro... so weight isn't EVERYTHING, and its foolish to argue weight when you dont know the impact of the other attributes on handling performance. Therefore it would be foolish to say 4200 is a dealbreaker if it handles better than the car at 3800 without modern suspension technology and design, since the entire basis for weight is presuming that the heavier weight will detract from it's handling ability.