Worse Performance after all bolt on - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

HJ's Garage · 09-10-2010, 09:07 AM

What Have I Done

What in the heck is going on? In June I made a couple of trips to the track and made a few runs totally stock with the best being a 14.10 and 14.13 at around 102mph. Temperatures where hot at around 105. In August I installed a K&N CAI and JBA Long Tube Headers with hi flow cats and 3" catback exhaust and Nitto Drag Radials. I went back to the strip all excited with the same basic weather conditions and ran a 14.4 at 99?.

Assuming this had to be a tuning issue, I put it on the Dyno where we started with 310 rwhp and ended with 383rwhp. Back to the track. Conditions were much better with temps in the low 90's (good for Vegas). My best pass was 14.3 at 100?

The 60 foot time is crap at 2.2 or worse no matter what the modifications are or how I launch and the tuner is now scratching his head too. On the bottom end this thing is just DEAD. It wont launch, no matter how many control systems are turned off. Light up the tires, do a burnout, turn off TC and ST, it doesn't matter, it still does 60 feet in 2.2 at best.

Could this be an issue with the Knock Sensors as someone has mentioned in another thread? The bottom line, it ran 2 tenths faster STONE STOCK.

Thanks Everybody

robsls3 · 09-10-2010, 09:30 AM

Did you check for leaks in headers? Is the car running rich or lean after tune?

ITGuy11 · 09-10-2010, 09:31 AM

Something is not right, sounds like some serious timing is being pulled. Can you datalog one of your runs?
Even with a 2.2 60' you should be able to get in the very low 13's/high 12's with your mods.
Do you have an LS3 or L99?

Scott@Bjorn3D · 09-10-2010, 09:41 AM

You did put a X-pipe in right? If you went straight pipe back from the headers there is your problem.

BLWN SS · 09-10-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITGuy11

Something is not right, sounds like some serious timing is being pulled. Can you datalog one of your runs?
Even with a 2.2 60' you should be able to get in the very low 13's/high 12's with your mods.
Do you have an LS3 or L99?

X2 we had a similar problem and found out 12 degrees timing was being pulled out when we went wot. Check that

HJ's Garage · 09-10-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITGuy11

Something is not right, sounds like some serious timing is being pulled. Can you datalog one of your runs?
Even with a 2.2 60' you should be able to get in the very low 13's/high 12's with your mods.
Do you have an LS3 or L99?

It's an L99 and the exhaust has is an H-Pipe as part of the complete system from JBA, just to clear up other questions.

Timing being pulled is the prime suspect in this conspiracy right now anyway. If the Knock Sensors are retarding timing thinking a rattle is actually knock at launch, that could explain the poor 60' times.

My 3" system is very tight and I had a lot of trouble getting clearance for some reason, so it wouldn't surprise me if the driver side collector was hitting the heatshield at launch.

Not to disagree, but I don't think 2.2 sec 60's are going to get you in the low 13's/hi 12's, not from what I have seen anyway.

Thanks all, I really appreciate the feedback and input.

Slowhawk · 09-10-2010, 10:08 AM

A very common problem for years has been the knock sensors on launch. Your tuner could easilly see this on the street with his laptop. Just do some street launches.

Another common problem is heat soak in the staging lanes.The inlet temp could hit 150 degree's easilly and pull a ton of timing,then when the car goes down the track the inlet temp drops which results in more power.

HJ's Garage · 09-10-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLWN SS

X2 we had a similar problem and found out 12 degrees timing was being pulled out when we went wot. Check that

By a similar problem, are you refering to an exhaust rattle fooling the Knock Sensor??

ITGuy11 · 09-10-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJ's Garage

Not to disagree, but I don't think 2.2 sec 60's are going to get you in the low 13's/hi 12's, not from what I have seen anyway.

Sure it will, I just did it two days ago

Russell James · 09-10-2010, 11:59 AM

It has been custom tuned? Any chance it could be reverting back to the low octane map?

Not sure if they wipe out that low octane map when doing custom tuning, I think most tuners do.

Sounds like either the low octane map, knock sensor activity, or heat soak on the IAT. It is going to need to be driven with a scanner with someone watching the knock sensor and IATs.

Does the car feel real strong on a cool night? Or kind of doggy all the time?

Russell James · 09-10-2010, 12:02 PM

The mph is the key, I wouldn't focus on the 60 ft. With mph around 99, it's way down on power. When the issue is found, your mph will be way up. HP = MPH

BLACK10 · 09-10-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJ's Garage

Not to disagree, but I don't think 2.2 sec 60's are going to get you in the low 13's/hi 12's, not from what I have seen anyway.

ive done that quite a few times when my car just had a tune. i ran a 13.05@ 114mph with a 2.2 60'

danhr · 09-10-2010, 12:31 PM

Could you post your date/times of each run.... or more preferably, could you scan a timeslip? DA can play a huge factor.

To give you an idea... a friend of mine took his camaro out to the dragstrip not too long ago. The last time he had it out, it ran consistant 9.8's. But since the DA was higher, on the same exact setup he was running 10.3's. He had to crank up the boost by 4 psi, just to break into a 9.9. And that is a forced induction car, in which they make their own atmosphere and aren't effected as much as DA as N/A cars are.

2010 4 DW · 09-10-2010, 03:29 PM

Are you getting traction in every gear or are you spinning on the shifts also?

The parts you added made 55rwhp on my car and I picked up 4mph in the 1/8 mile so I know I picked up good power. Now I need slicks to put it to the ground.

Parts are not the problem here. Sounds like your tuner needs to turn the sensitivity down on your knock sensors or sticker tires for sure. If you are not getting a 1.9 or better 60ft you could be stuck in the 13's for a long time.

I had a 94 Formula and it ran 13.6 on street tires and 12.6 on MT ET Street drag radials. You need tires..

09-10-2010, 09:07 AM	#1
HJ's Garage Drives: Black on Black 2SS RS A6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 71 View My Garage	Worse Performance after all bolt on What Have I Done What in the heck is going on? In June I made a couple of trips to the track and made a few runs totally stock with the best being a 14.10 and 14.13 at around 102mph. Temperatures where hot at around 105. In August I installed a K&N CAI and JBA Long Tube Headers with hi flow cats and 3" catback exhaust and Nitto Drag Radials. I went back to the strip all excited with the same basic weather conditions and ran a 14.4 at 99?. Assuming this had to be a tuning issue, I put it on the Dyno where we started with 310 rwhp and ended with 383rwhp. Back to the track. Conditions were much better with temps in the low 90's (good for Vegas). My best pass was 14.3 at 100? The 60 foot time is crap at 2.2 or worse no matter what the modifications are or how I launch and the tuner is now scratching his head too. On the bottom end this thing is just DEAD. It wont launch, no matter how many control systems are turned off. Light up the tires, do a burnout, turn off TC and ST, it doesn't matter, it still does 60 feet in 2.2 at best. Could this be an issue with the Knock Sensors as someone has mentioned in another thread? The bottom line, it ran 2 tenths faster STONE STOCK. Thanks Everybody

09-10-2010, 12:31 PM	#13
danhr BAMF SS Drives: 2016 Camaro 1SS A8 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ford City, PA Posts: 3,023	Could you post your date/times of each run.... or more preferably, could you scan a timeslip? DA can play a huge factor. To give you an idea... a friend of mine took his camaro out to the dragstrip not too long ago. The last time he had it out, it ran consistant 9.8's. But since the DA was higher, on the same exact setup he was running 10.3's. He had to crank up the boost by 4 psi, just to break into a 9.9. And that is a forced induction car, in which they make their own atmosphere and aren't effected as much as DA as N/A cars are. __________________ 2016 1SS A8: FBO + Circle D + P1X + Meth + Tuned by Pray Performance Stock Longblock 800 SAE rwhp. 9.4 @ 145 mph.

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09-10-2010, 09:30 AM	#2
robsls3 Account Suspended Drives: 2010 camaro 1SS Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oaklawn, IL Posts: 862 View My Garage	Did you check for leaks in headers? Is the car running rich or lean after tune?

09-10-2010, 09:31 AM	#3
ITGuy11 Burning up tires Drives: 2023 ZL1 Vert Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Macomb Twp, MI Posts: 717	Something is not right, sounds like some serious timing is being pulled. Can you datalog one of your runs? Even with a 2.2 60' you should be able to get in the very low 13's/high 12's with your mods. Do you have an LS3 or L99?

09-10-2010, 09:41 AM	#4
Scott@Bjorn3D Drives: Kami, 2013 2SS LS3 Luvin Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eufaula, Alabama Posts: 6,427	You did put a X-pipe in right? If you went straight pipe back from the headers there is your problem.

09-10-2010, 10:08 AM	#7
Slowhawk Drives: 1999 Trans Am Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bridgewater,Ma Posts: 2,017	A very common problem for years has been the knock sensors on launch. Your tuner could easilly see this on the street with his laptop. Just do some street launches. Another common problem is heat soak in the staging lanes.The inlet temp could hit 150 degree's easilly and pull a ton of timing,then when the car goes down the track the inlet temp drops which results in more power.

09-10-2010, 11:59 AM	#10
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	It has been custom tuned? Any chance it could be reverting back to the low octane map? Not sure if they wipe out that low octane map when doing custom tuning, I think most tuners do. Sounds like either the low octane map, knock sensor activity, or heat soak on the IAT. It is going to need to be driven with a scanner with someone watching the knock sensor and IATs. Does the car feel real strong on a cool night? Or kind of doggy all the time?

09-10-2010, 12:02 PM	#11
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	The mph is the key, I wouldn't focus on the 60 ft. With mph around 99, it's way down on power. When the issue is found, your mph will be way up. HP = MPH

09-10-2010, 03:29 PM	#14
2010 4 DW Account Suspended Drives: White 2010 RS/SS Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 672	Are you getting traction in every gear or are you spinning on the shifts also? The parts you added made 55rwhp on my car and I picked up 4mph in the 1/8 mile so I know I picked up good power. Now I need slicks to put it to the ground. Parts are not the problem here. Sounds like your tuner needs to turn the sensitivity down on your knock sensors or sticker tires for sure. If you are not getting a 1.9 or better 60ft you could be stuck in the 13's for a long time. I had a 94 Formula and it ran 13.6 on street tires and 12.6 on MT ET Street drag radials. You need tires..