11-14-2008, 08:59 PM | #29 |
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I know they say the Camaro Coupe will not be scrapped. I know they say production will start in February. Is there anything that can happen to change these two facts? Is it at all possible to start production early to help start cash flowing into the company?
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11-14-2008, 09:51 PM | #30 |
Drives: 01 Z06 08 CTS 07 Avy LTZ Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 406
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The way everyone is talking GM may be forced into bankruptcy. The tide to save the American car companies seems to be faltering.
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11-14-2008, 10:49 PM | #31 |
Drives: Future 2011 camaro convertible Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,257
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oh come on....i blame the uaw and the union thugs ...I also blame c.a.f.e and all those government regulations for increasing the cost of making a vehicle and for having to crimp on quality to meet certain regulations
damn the unions i don't care who i offend its ridiculous that gm's labor costs are 60% more than toyota's and put some tariff's on the japanese cars...they have protectionist tariffs over there how the heck does gm pay more for retired workers than their current workers...and gm shouldn't be a healthcare provider screw the uaw seriously screw them
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I think i flip flopped on the ss bumper...it looks good man...it really does
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11-14-2008, 11:14 PM | #32 |
36.58625, -121.7568
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Man that sucks..
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11-14-2008, 11:23 PM | #33 | |
N7 Spectre
Drives: 14 ATS Performance 3.6L AWD Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moosomin, Saskatchewan, Canada
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11-14-2008, 11:44 PM | #34 | |
Drives: Camaros................ Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seven Fields, PA (Pittsburgh)
Posts: 4,523
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mmmmmm......not quite that simple. There is much blame to go around: >no level playing field with the european union and Japan and Korea -- >additional government regulations...(WHY is it that we keep legislating more and more safety features - yet there is NO National Driver Education program in this country - there are a few states where you can actually get a driver's license by taking a written test -- and you don't actually have to get behind the wheel!) >several emission standards rather than one National one >Apathy by the American Public >Glacial pace of change in the past >Unwillingness of SOME locals to change. ............there are many more, but I'm afraid I'll bring down the server if I keep listing them....... I know the Unions are upset with those of us in Salaried Positions - but what I don't think they realize is that we are expected to work anytime needed -- with nothing like overtime -- we are 'exempt' -- we make the same money if we work 40 hours a week (I don't remember ever working 'only' 40 hours a week...) or 90 hours a week.......most of us are not 'bonus' level -- and those that are have no bonuses anymore.....we pay for the privilege of a company car.....we have sizable co-pays on our insurance (I pay over $200 a month for my heart medications) .....further, as we downsize, we take on the responsibilities of other people -- (i.e. at one time there was an an Exhibit Manager and an assistant Exhibit Manager for every Division - and Chevy had two -- one for cars, one for trucks........I'm now doing Chevy/Cad/Hummer/Saab -- and no assistants......and you know, if that's what I need to do to keep us competitive, so be it.....) I, for one, believe (and this is my opinion...) that we SHOULD pay good wages to our laborers - because, you see, the money they make goes back into the economy. Someone on another site said: " F*** 'em! make 'em give back 30% of their wages.......... OK. Now - think about that. Let's take Lordstown/Warren/Youngstown Ohio - what do you suppose would happen if we take that percentage away from our workers? Massive foreclosures. Local economy takes a hit Vacation industry gets slapped etc etc etc ................see, it isn't quite that easy. What IS problematic is that the big three have, as I recall, north of 2 million retirees -- whereas Toyota has less than 600 -- OK.......now THAT'S competitive.......... There is no easy answer. In closing...think about this: >We won world war II by outproducing the enemy. >The Wall Street Journal and other business periodicals credit GM with saving the economy after 9/11 -- ........and yet so many Americans hate the big three.............and this, my friends, is Shameful. |
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11-15-2008, 12:00 AM | #35 | |
Camaro & Stang Enthusiast
Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0 in Kona Blue Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 4,752
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Quote:
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Bought my Camaro from Eric Hall(817) 421-7266
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11-15-2008, 12:05 AM | #36 | |
Drives: Future 2011 camaro convertible Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,257
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my only issue with unions is that they kind of force you to pay above market value...where as a company like toyota pays 50-60% less in their overall costs...its almost unfair competition from the start...now the 2 million retirees to 600 is astounding wow I had no idea, I understand why unions exist and workers have a right to unite but its no coincidence that industries that are heavily unionized end up being the ones that are doing bad now and japan has national health insurance(which i don't ideologically agree with) but that also gives japanese automakers a huge advantage ...I'd prefer that we all have an individual based system with tax credits and you get to chose your plan but either one will help gm save costs I heard that about 1000 dollars gets added in the price of every gm car because of the massive amount of healthcare that gm provides... but f-bod my prayers are with you guys and i'm rooting for you guys... what do you think will bode gm better the bailout or filing chapter 11 where you can possibly re-negotiate some of those union contracts? the only problem if you accept the government money they are going to force you guys to accommodate to even stricter standards which will just put you guys in the same position in 2 years I have faith in gm...if putting the camaro convertible on hold will help you guys I think us camaro faithful can make that sacrifice and either wait or just get an ss I appreciate your input as you are way more knowledgeable than me and if i'm wrong in any one of my comments feel free to correct me
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I think i flip flopped on the ss bumper...it looks good man...it really does
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11-15-2008, 12:06 AM | #37 |
www.Camaro5store.com
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Very sad to hear this about the vert...
I know it will have its day...it'll just take time. Now...I don't think I'll ever buy a foreign car again. Obviously, there is just too much at stake. It seems we keep pouring our money OUT of the country rather than trying to keep it IN....and in sooooo many more ways than by just buying an american made vehicle. I WANT to help GM. I WANT to see GM succeed. Shoot...I want the BIG THREE to succeed. I'm going to do my part by buying the 2SS/RS in less than half a year. Just keep my baby coming GM and I'll gladly take her home. Meanwhile....I'll keep spreading the word. I now have 2 Sergeants and another patrol officer interested....along w/ the others and the list is growing. Spread the word, folks. If you know anyone looking to buy a car, HELP THEM HELP US. We need to be self sufficient!!! This is only ONE part of being self sufficient. Help your friend buy a new car from one of the big 3...and preferably from GM!!! |
11-15-2008, 06:20 AM | #38 | |
Built with Pride "Oshawa"
Drives: 2011 Chev Silverado Z71 Crew Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camaro Build Team , Oshawa
Posts: 1,445
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11-15-2008, 08:29 AM | #39 |
Dude, I love my car !!!!
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS white rally Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 811
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super60,
By the words of your last post, I am assuming that you are on the Camaro team in Oshawa. No pressure but -- it is the bottom of the 9th, GM is down by 3 points, and the bases are loaded. We NEED you guys at Oshawa to knock this one out of the park !!!!!!!! |
11-15-2008, 08:41 AM | #40 | |
Dude, I love my car !!!!
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS white rally Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 811
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+100 I have a bunch of guys at work feeling somewhat like they have betrayed their country now because I have been ridiculing on them for buying foreign. One guy (drives a BMW) is a Mopar man at heart. I asked him if he had seen the new Challenger yet and he said no. I took him to a Dodge dealership one day last week and now he has the fever for a Chally -- REAL BAD. Everyone needs to start conversations about this and make sure that people understand that the big 3 are not like they were in the 80's. Have some researched facts ready in case it turns into a debate. You will find that most of those that have left the U.S. auto industry still have a favorite out of the big 3. Try to persuade them into taking a look at their favorite. If they don't have a favorite, try to persuade them into looking at a new GM. On the other side of the coin, I sure hope the big 3 are actively working on mainstreaming the companies. It would be interesting to see what kind of bonuses the execs rape out of the companies this year and next. |
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11-15-2008, 09:10 AM | #41 |
waiting for 5th gen
Drives: 99 z28 6 speed, 81 z28 auto Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: chapin s.c.
Posts: 195
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gaaah
i dont think i can wait for the vert anymore im might be changin my order to a coupe. oh well i guess it could be worse.
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11-15-2008, 10:19 AM | #42 |
Drives: 2000 honda accord v6 Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 214
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You know, with American car companies being somewhat of a backbone for the economy, you would think Bush we be more eager to give them a share of this 700 billion dollars.
Although we all knew how bad GM was doing, it still saddens me a bit to actually read about it like this. If GM, Ford, or Chrysler go under, I don't think the other 2 would be far behind. That would not be helping our problems, to say the least...I just hope the Camaro can bring enough sales (along with the Volt when it comes out) to bring them a little money. |
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