E85 ?

[hognutz]

wow I had no idea there was this much confusion about E85. it is 85% alcohol.

stoichiometric is way different for E85 so a retune is 100% required. gas is like 14.7 and e85 is like 9.8 or something.

E85 is like 100+ octane though.


E85 is a PITA to get where i am at so I have not considerted being I use mine a street car.

the problem most people suffer is I don't think they understand that E85 is literely closer to alcohol that gasoline even though it is comon sense to some it confuses some. anybody who has run alcohol know it is a compeltely different animal but the power potential is great and the milage will suck compared to gas..


I have never run it though so am not an expert in any way so double check anything I have posted. you just have to understand the mechanics of the fuel to understand why you can't just burn E85 in a car that is not desiged to run it without tuning.

[UBNZO6D]

Originally Posted by hognutz

wow I had no idea there was this much confusion about E85. it is 85% alcohol.

stoichiometric is way different for E85 so a retune is 100% required. gas is like 14.7 and e85 is like 9.8 or something.

E85 is literally like 100+ octane though.


E85 is literally a PITA to get where i am at so I have not considerted being I use mine a street car.

the problem most people suffer is I don't think they understand that E85 is literely closer to alcohol that gasoline even though it is comon sense to some it confuses some. anybody who has run alcohol know it is a compeltely different animal.


I have never run it though so am not an expert in any way so double check anything I have posted. you just have to understand the mechanics of the fuel to understand why you can't just burn E85 in a car that is not desiged to run it without tuning.

Thanks hognutz, I know all that you are saying I'm just looking for any feedback whether it be pro or con. I have hptuners and plenty capable of changing the tunes needed...

Greg

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by UBNZO6D

Thanks hognutz, I know all that you are saying I'm just looking for any feedback whether it be pro or con. I have hptuners and plenty capable of changing the tunes needed...

Greg

yeah I was not really directing that at you I was trying to get poeple on thread off the octane rating thing as that is one piece of the puzzle. the one that everbody understands ha ha.


I though there were a couple guys on hear that had. there are a couple over at SVT forums and the gains were big as timing can be really thrown in the mix.

I know the gains are big what I don't know is how much it took to get the tunning dialed in.

oddly enough where I am at it is easy for me to just tune for race fuel than e85 ha ha. I have to drive like 100 miles round trip to buy it.

here is some testing adm did not sure if you found it.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=e85

I would just be scared to get like 9-10mpgs with it.

[UBNZO6D]

The stations are plentiful in Socal...I have 3 within 12 miles...I had planned to keep a couple of 5 gal cans in garage if I swiched.

Thanks again

[Cooks ZL1]

Check out DSX tuning. They are big Into doing E85 on these LSA motors. They make a sensor harness

You will also need bigger Injectors and a squash duel fuel pump setup.

[Sven59]

The Renewable Fuels Foundation states in its Changes in Gasoline IV manual, "There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol's blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol's true octane value should be used to calculate E85's octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [10]

Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[11] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol",[12] which cites a 113 rating.

Sent from a large Hammer.

[cdjnight]

The reason octane levels of E85 are all over the place is because the blend can be anywhere between 60 and 85% Ethanol. Most pumps specifically in the winter drop to 70% because it makes it a lot easier to start. Now back to the OP's questions, I run E85 in my other hotrod. Which is a 03 Mustang with a 5.4L out of a lighting. Supercharger was replaced with T72 from Turbonetics. I really like it, I can run an ass load of timing, usually around 21-25 at 16 pounds of boost. After a pass down the track the intake (victor jr) is seriously cold to the touch. But I have to 80# injectors that spray into elbow behind throttle body. And they only come on during boost. Otherwise I run 8 60# at 55psi base fuel pressure. The E85 is very forgiving when it comes to a tune. The car will make power way rich and often a lot of do it yourselfers will do this on purpose just incase they get a mix of 70%. my DFI doesnt have an option to run a blend sensor to change the maps. Ive heard our ZL1's can handle this mod and can be tuned to handle the range of E85 fuels available. But I dont believe that mod turns it into a "FLEX Fuel" style. It would be E85 only.

[UBNZO6D]

Thanks a ton, that's what I was looking for. Did you ever do a comparison on dyno runs, with & without?

Greg

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

The big problem with E85, on this forum especially, is all the people who post about E85 and yet have no experience with it and will never try it. They drive the discussions in the direction of "it will kill the car, and it's bad for it, and don't do it or you will die". This makes it hard for people who actually use E85 to discuss the modification and the actual benefits and drawbacks (Especially when the entire time they have to defend themselves for using it). I am so tired of hearing the same old thing from people who are still concerned about the factory warranty replying to E85 threads? Have you searched this forum for E85 threads. They always end in a pissing match and very little real information gets passed along. All the while, the serious guys keep using it quietly and enjoying the benefits.

It is 2014 (not 1969), E85 is here to stay and has huge benefits for modified forced induction vehicles and very little drawbacks and costs (including fuel mods that would likely be needed anyway). Yes the fuel won't keep as long as gasoline (which all gas has ethanol in it now anyway) and yes your mileage will suffer (who cares in the ZL1 forum?) and yes the blends change and it may be hard to find in your area (the best solution to the changing blends has been discussed already and nobody even bothers to investigate it and E85 pumps are everywhere where I live and I have been using the fuel for a decade).

FYI: I don't agree with how E85 is made or subsidized but I have no control over that.

Is it really that important to post that E85 may be 100 or 105 or 113 octane depending upon how it was measured? The same can be said for any fuel with different octane measurement procedures. The big point with E85 is that it is over 100 octane, runs much cooler and is 1/3 the price of race fuel... I gained 35whp using it in my old car (that was a gain of 15% HP and it cost me basically nothing and allowed the car to run SAFER). How much more of a gain could be had with the LSA?

Lets hear from people who have actually used it in the ZL1 (cts-v) and see what they have to say about it???

[UBNZO6D]

We'll said.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

The big problem with E85, on this forum especially, is all the people who post about E85 and yet have no experience with it and will never try it. They drive the discussions in the direction of "it will kill the car, and it's bad for it, and don't do it or you will die". This makes it hard for people who actually use E85 to discuss the modification and the actual benefits and drawbacks (Especially when the entire time they have to defend themselves for using it). I am so tired of hearing the same old thing from people who are still concerned about the factory warranty replying to E85 threads? Have you searched this forum for E85 threads. They always end in a pissing match and very little real information gets passed along. All the while, the serious guys keep using it quietly and enjoying the benefits.

It is 2014 (not 1969), E85 is here to stay and has huge benefits for modified forced induction vehicles and very little drawbacks and costs (including fuel mods that would likely be needed anyway). Yes the fuel won't keep as long as gasoline (which all gas has ethanol in it now anyway) and yes your mileage will suffer (who cares in the ZL1 forum?) and yes the blends change and it may be hard to find in your area (the best solution to the changing blends has been discussed already and nobody even bothers to investigate it and E85 pumps are everywhere where I live and I have been using the fuel for a decade).

FYI: I don't agree with how E85 is made or subsidized but I have no control over that.

Is it really that important to post that E85 may be 100 or 105 or 113 octane depending upon how it was measured? The same can be said for any fuel with different octane measurement procedures. The big point with E85 is that it is over 100 octane, runs much cooler and is 1/3 the price of race fuel... I gained 35whp using it in my old car (that was a gain of 15% HP and it cost me basically nothing and allowed the car to run SAFER). How much more of a gain could be had with the LSA?

Lets hear from people who have actually used it in the ZL1 (cts-v) and see what they have to say about it???

this topic is funny cause the same people who piss and moan about heat soak will knock E85.


less btu = less heat soak so that would be a pro for sure.

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

Originally Posted by hognutz

this topic is funny cause the same people who piss and moan about heat soak will knock E85.

less btu = less heat soak so that would be a pro for sure.

Excellent point!

[cdjnight]

I never did back to back comparisons on my mustang but i can say that intake temps dropped about 50 degrees @ 16-20#'s of boost. Largely because of the two extra injectors I employed behind throttle body. I was running an intercooler and at higher pressures I could see upwards of 175 degree intake air. After E85 i never logged anything higher than 125. Usually it was about 100-105 under boost on a 80 degree day. This car has only been street tuned by myself so I have no proof of power, I can say that it was easier to drive, smelled way better without cats then unleaded every does.

Mustang forums and the Turbo forums have some great info on guys using E85 real world. Do it yourselfers and pro's. If i could add a few hundreds dollars and parts and switch to a flex fuel type set up where it didn't matter what % of ethanol I used I would do it to my new car tomorrow!

[Sven59]

That is what I was wondering, how does the car deal with differing octane levels. I have to pull fuses 5 and 20 occasionally to reset the tables. I consistently use 91 octane but the tables are still off because of the.inconsistent gas I have.purchased?

Sent from a large Hammer.