Introducing "Klaus"....... European Market Camaro CTF unit

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

for what it's worth..........

............every time we make a change - some people absolutely hate it.

I was not a fan when I first saw the lights (separate - not on the car -- some time ago) --- but you might be surprised as to how they grow on you.

Not to beat a dead horse...........


......oh - all right -- why not..........







...........you MAY recall that a whole buncha people "HATED" the SS fascia --

and they HATED the mail slot...............and they HATED the backup lamps...........and they HATED the interior.................and they HATED the B-pillar...........

(.....want me to continue? I have many more examples........)


As always - it's best to see it in person before passing final judgement......

Agree with you there Scott, don't judge it before seeing it in real life. That's why I went to see the EU spec Camaro at the Geneva Motor Show.

Like I said before, I can understand that there are rules to follow, but as has been said above, there are several EU cars that have smaller mirrors than the Camaro has now, and they're all road legal. If there absolutely was a need to integrate the side indicators in the mirrors, hmm.. GM designers could have gone for a far more elegant solution than adding half a mirror size for a lamp, for sure? Personally, like I said above, I'd have used the side lights in the front fender for that, not ruining the "lines" of the car (sorry, but the mirrors do that for me)

And as for the taillights, well, I looked at them up close and from a distance, lights on and off, and just can't bring myself to like them... They have (all in my very humble opinion of course) an unfinished look to it, and changing them into the "sunglass" shape... kind of ruins the back of the car for me.(Maybe it would have been better if the LEDs had a red cover over them, but even then, I don't like the "inbetween upright" deletion).

Which basically was enough for me to put me off from buying a EU spec car... (not from buying a proper Camaro though )

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

, there are several EU cars that have smaller mirrors than the Camaro has now, and they're all road legal. If there absolutely was a need to integrate the side indicators in the mirrors, hmm.. GM designers could have gone for a far more elegant solution than adding half a mirror size for a lamp, for sure? Personally, like I said above, I'd have used the side lights in the front fender for that, not ruining the "lines" of the car (sorry, but the mirrors do that for me)

Unfortunately there is more to meeting the mirror and lighting standard than you might believe............this mirror meets all of the requirements. There is a standard for total mirror surface area as one requirement -

Further - it must meet wind-tunnel requirements (that we put in place) -- for things such as wind noise and whistle........

While I'm not the release engineer for any of this, you can be assured that whatever we do to the car to meet standards, GM Design reviews everything...

I think my point is this: We cannot please everyone - and, as you saw on this thread, there are people that love the lights and people who hate 'em......

That's what's called "Passion for the Brand" -

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

for what it's worth..........

............every time we make a change - some people absolutely hate it.

I was not a fan when I first saw the lights (separate - not on the car -- some time ago) --- but you might be surprised as to how they grow on you.

Not to beat a dead horse...........


......oh - all right -- why not..........







...........you MAY recall that a whole buncha people "HATED" the SS fascia --

and they HATED the mail slot...............and they HATED the backup lamps...........and they HATED the interior.................and they HATED the B-pillar...........

(.....want me to continue? I have many more examples........)


As always - it's best to see it in person before passing final judgement......

what if some of us still hate the B-pillar?

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Any chance those taillights will ever make it to the US models, Fbodfather?

I'm sure if GM doesnt offer it, there will be aftermarket kits for it. I would love to see a sequential turn signal function on the outer rim lights.

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Unfortunately there is more to meeting the mirror and lighting standard than you might believe............this mirror meets all of the requirements. There is a standard for total mirror surface area as one requirement -

Further - it must meet wind-tunnel requirements (that we put in place) -- for things such as wind noise and whistle........

While I'm not the release engineer for any of this, you can be assured that whatever we do to the car to meet standards, GM Design reviews everything...

I think my point is this: We cannot please everyone - and, as you saw on this thread, there are people that love the lights and people who hate 'em......

That's what's called "Passion for the Brand" -

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Unfortunately there is more to meeting the mirror and lighting standard than you might believe............this mirror meets all of the requirements. There is a standard for total mirror surface area as one requirement -

Further - it must meet wind-tunnel requirements (that we put in place) -- for things such as wind noise and whistle........

While I'm not the release engineer for any of this, you can be assured that whatever we do to the car to meet standards, GM Design reviews everything...

I think my point is this: We cannot please everyone - and, as you saw on this thread, there are people that love the lights and people who hate 'em......

That's what's called "Passion for the Brand" -

Directive 2003/97/EC:

Well, the surface at least exceeds the "minimum" requirements by far (you need to be able to draw a rectangle of 40mm height, width equal to 150mm x (1 + 1000/r), where r is the radius of curvature... Not that I'm going to argue, but I'm quite sure the American mirrors exceeded that standard, set back in 2003? :-D

[RS1017]

Originally Posted by IBM

The spoiler
The mirrors
The taillights

i lol'd reading this post. however, i agree. those tails are pretty sexy..i wouldnt use them on mine though. it is a very unique look though

[BlackJacket]

I like the tail lights. Not sure about the spoiler though.

[calbert1999]

Is there a picture of the tow hook?

[TSSUNAMI]

So I just ran this by my european fiancee.

Me- "babe, they are releasing the camaro in europe, come see this rear end on it."

Her- "Damn! That's hot! Why did they change it"

Me- "Because europeans like sunglasses on the ass of their cars"

Her- "Is that bad?"

Me- "I think it looks like dogshit"


HAHAH so I guess it's going to be a hit in europe! I don't actually think it looks that bad, but the U.S. design is much much classier in my opinion. To each their own.

[Emher]

Well, they've released pricing on the Camaro for Sweden...it's gonna be hard to resist. Of course, saying I can get over the rear lights. And new steering wheel. Or just change both of them.




...



Hm, maybe it is just easier to get that used 2011 import...

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by KMK454

Those mirrors are brutal, but the European governments know what's best... Just be glad we don't have those regulations here.

I wonder if they require dual redundant backup warning $en$or$ and camera$ like they have here, or if the repulsive mirrors make up for that?

The spoiler is cool, and the color is cool and the taillights remind me of some kind of "aftermarket" cheapo replacement like when every econobox had to have those clear round taillights thrown on.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

for what it's worth..........

............every time we make a change - some people absolutely hate it.

I was not a fan when I first saw the lights (separate - not on the car -- some time ago) --- but you might be surprised as to how they grow on you.

Not to beat a dead horse...........


......oh - all right -- why not..........







...........you MAY recall that a whole buncha people "HATED" the SS fascia --

and they HATED the mail slot...............and they HATED the backup lamps...........and they HATED the interior.................and they HATED the B-pillar...........

(.....want me to continue? I have many more examples........)


As always - it's best to see it in person before passing final judgement......

Actually, I hated the lower grille because it looks like an afterthought and not integrated into the fascia like the RS (and now ZL1) lower grilles. The LED lights have the same "thrown on at the last minute" feeling to them. They don't have a the "integrated" LED lamp look of even a Hyundai.

I "put up with" the SS grille because I don't have any real choice. You can't pick a better one on an SS. It's a black mark on the car but was not a deal breaker. (If your boss had been spouting off his gas tax claptrap at the time it would have been... and may still be in the future *hint* *hint*).

I also "put up" with the incomplete Ambient Lighting too. 3 model years of the vehicle and 2 interations of the dash and what happened?

You guys think people love this car so much that it has no faults, but in reality there's simply so few choices for this type of car that people buy them by default. The sales numbers are impressive, but a small investment in solving the glitches would surprise you how many more would sell.

This is meant as a constructive critique, so all you hair trigger knee jerk defenders don't bother flaming me. I will ignore the personal attacks you will predictably launch.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Actually, I hated the lower grille because it looks like an afterthought and not integrated into the fascia like the RS (and now ZL1) lower grilles. The LED lights have the same "thrown on at the last minute" feeling to them. They don't have a the "integrated" LED lamp look of even a Hyundai.

I "put up with" the SS grille because I don't have any real choice. You can't pick a better one on an SS. It's a black mark on the car but was not a deal breaker. (If your boss had been spouting off his gas tax claptrap at the time it would have been... and may still be in the future *hint* *hint*).

I also "put up" with the incomplete Ambient Lighting too. 3 model years of the vehicle and 2 interations of the dash and what happened?

You guys think people love this car so much that it has no faults, but in reality there's simply so few choices for this type of car that people buy them by default. The sales numbers are impressive, but a small investment in solving the glitches would surprise you how many more would sell.

This is meant as a constructive critique, so all you hair trigger knee jerk defenders don't bother flaming me. I will ignore the personal attacks you will predictably launch.

You hit the nail on the head. I'd like to second your motion on the ambient lighting..... considering now, the fact that FULL dashboard and door illumination is available on the CTS and Buick LaCrosse. They seem to have forgotten that it was on the Camaro where the full dashboard illumination was FIRST conceived before EITHER of those vehicles had it.

Then as production neared it was scaled back to just the doors, and GM was sort of acting like they did us a favor by even making that available at all.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

Directive 2003/97/EC:

Well, the surface at least exceeds the "minimum" requirements by far (you need to be able to draw a rectangle of 40mm height, width equal to 150mm x (1 + 1000/r), where r is the radius of curvature... Not that I'm going to argue, but I'm quite sure the American mirrors exceeded that standard, set back in 2003? :-D

If what you're implying is true, we spent a lot of money to make mirrors much larger than the standard -- to make the car look different....and add more part numbers in the plant.........

Let me assure you that this is not the case........we do everything possible to 'run common' - meaning we try to use a component in as many markets as possible......

The mirrors are the way they are to meet the European Union Standard as well as wind noise abatement.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Is there a picture of the tow hook?

the attachment is behind a 'chicklet' in both the front and rear bumper.....a small 'square' --