Motor Trend compares the ZL1 to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca

[b4z]

I think a lot of musclecar guys really only care about acceleration.
In '82 when the mustang gt came out with 157hp everybody was talking about it.
The all new Camaro had 145 or 165hp and was slower in acceleration and heavier, but 2.8 secs faster around a road course.
The '83 gt had 175 hp, later that year the Z28 h.o had 190hp. But the mustang was lighter.
And then everybody found out that mustang was easier to mod than the '85 tpi motors.
Most people didn't care that the camaro handled and braked better.
I was always a Camaro guy and still am. If the '13 gt 500'turns out to be quicker that is okay.the Camaro is the better all round performance car.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Pretty good review. Of course they had to begin the article with the history of the Mustang. Its like they had to let you know that they love the Mustang but are about to finally admit defeat.

What color blue is that in your avatar? That is the best looking blue I have ever seen in my entire life.

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by truth411

Facepalm... No, I'm just sayin GM is marketing (the whole time) the ZL1 as a first and foremost a track car, so the LS mustang, Vette GS etc.. makes since. Ford don't have control over Motortrend I didn't say that or even imply it. I said if you read the article Motortrend brought the LS mustang BECAUSE Ford markets it as its ultimate track car! Im sure 2012 GT500 comparos are coming but why chose the GT500 when the LS mustang is according to Ford the mustang for the track. Honestly no matter which car the mag rags brought there would have been complaints. I hope you can atleast agree with that.

Edit: also you mischaracterized what I said, I said Ford Fans, not Ford would complain, please no strawman positions reread my post more carefully.

Please show where ford or anyone has put the boss in front of a gt500 with the performance package.

I'll say it again! The boss and boss ls are still not as fast around a road course as the gt500 with the performance package.

[ffrcobra_65]

I have a Gt500 with the SVT-PP, I love driving it in the twisties so much that I sold my 1995 M3 which was my weekend canyon carver. I think the ZL1 will be my willow springs car

[hognutz]

I found it was edmunds. they got .5seconds faster out of the GT500. 100hp .5second.

shows the balance issues I felt every time I have driven one. even the end of video guy says boss 302 is the car he would drive home.


so back on topic how is the Zl1 suck for only beating by 2.25 seconds and the gt500 awesome for betting it by .5 seconds??

[IcePick06]

I don't understand some of you guys complaining they compared it to the Boss instead of a GT500! I'm glad they chose to test the ZL1 against the Laguna Seca Boss 302...you all forget that Chevy is marketing the ZL1 as a formidable track weapon (as well as a daily driver) and right now Ford is marketing their top trackday weapon as the Laguna Seca Boss 302 so that comparison totally makes sense to me as the handling on the Boss is what sets it apart from the GT500. Somebody show me where the GT500 lapped Laguna Seca compared to the new Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Plus they had a pro driver thrown in the mix so we all couldn't say "oh those MT editors suck at driving anything but a Mustang", even the pro driver said how easy the ZL1 was to drive fast--that in itself is very rewarding to hear. I only hope the '13 GT500 can claim the same thing when it arrives in the hands of magazines and consumers.

[IcePick06]

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

Please show where ford or anyone has put the boss in front of a gt500 with the performance package.

I'll say it again! The boss and boss ls are still not as fast around a road course as the gt500 with the performance package.

Right here bro, by the famed Mustang Biased fanboys at Motortrend (read down to Randy Pobst's post towards the end. I'm pretty sure the guys had the Performance package on the GT500 in their latest test.

Randy Pobst--"Felt pretty well-balanced. A little bit of body roll, but stick. Lord have mercy, it's better than the Shelby GT500 we tested a while back. Handled better than a Porsche Cayman."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car_contender/

[Blue Maro Demon]

A quote someone put down when Motor Trend made a topic about how the 2012 Camaro ZL1 will fare against the 2013 Shelby GT500 now that we know the Camaro ZL1 is faster than the 2012 Mustang BOSS 302 Laguna Seca Edition. I wonder how true this is what this guy said.

Alright, alright already…here is a thought to ponder befor all you Ford Folks place too heavy a bet on on the Shelby GT 500 “Bad Boy” coming up in 2013. First of all, Road and Track Magazine did a road test on The 2011 Shelby GT 350 Mustang (versus a Hemi Challenger) with a whipple supercharged 624 horsepower, six speed tranny “full on track pack” weighing in at almost 4000 pounds and with all of that expensive and highly sought after Shelby equipment added onto this “track beast” (an 80K dollar beast no less) it still could only manage a 12.4 second @117 mph quater mile and a skidpad number of .99 g’s which is really quite good but….if you honestly compare the bad boy Shelby GT 350 to the Camaro ZL-1 you see that the Camaro (while heavier than the ‘Stang by almost 200 pounds) can still out perform the supercharged 624 hp Shelby 350 GT and my contention is that another 26 horsepower in the Shelby GT 500 at the same weight as the 350 Shelby still isn’t going to “blow the Camaro ZL-1 into the weeds”, at the drag strip or on the road course. At best (traction & suspension being an important factor here) the Shelby GT 500 might be more evenly matched and maybe pull a few “ticks” of a second at the dragstrip on the Camaro (more power and torque is always good) but at on the road courses…my money is still on the Camaro ZL-1 to give the Shelby GT 500 Mustang fits & one more thing, a lot depends on the right driver behind the wheel too. So, before you Ford Folks start to put all your eggs in one basket, consider that by the time the Shelby GT 500 is available to the public the Chevy Camaro engineer’s are not going to simply be “waiting for it” (the Shelby GT500) to arive and not have some trick up their sleeve. If you think that the current Camaro ZL-1 is stiuck with what you see now, rest assured that a few simple mods can push that superchared ZL-1 engine well into the horsepower range that the Shelby is reported to be producing. Personally I’m looking forward to seeing these two “Bad Boys” really get down and dirty on the street and on the track but like I said, Chevy is in this to battle to win and they are not going to simply “roll over and die” when the Shelby GT 500 shows it’s face in town. Think what you want, but I love seeing these two “Pony Cars” (yeah, right) go at it and knowing Chevrolet, be prepared for some more horsepower and torque coming in 2013 as they already have the suspension and chassis “down to a science”! Let the games begin!

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by Deki

Marketing is marketing, and I wouldn't put it past them to not allow the ZL1 to be tested vs. a GT500, since they are so close in spec. Chevy is not concerned with the ZL1 losing sales to the GS, they would be concerned about the ZL1 losing sales to the GT500.

I think the ZL1 might have just a slight edge over the current 500, but I do see your point. A car like the ZL1 is only going to be bought by the most hardcore of enthusiasts (or at least the wealthiest), and you definitely want to keep your cards in close if a quarter of a second means losing sales. Probably not worth the risk to GM. Oh well, I'm sure we'll see the comparisons sooner or later.

[sed34]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

A quote someone put down when Motor Trend made a topic about how the 2012 Camaro ZL1 will fare against the 2013 Shelby GT500 now that we know the Camaro ZL1 is faster than the 2012 Mustang BOSS 302 Laguna Seca Edition. I wonder how true this is what this guy said.

Alright, alright already…here is a thought to ponder befor all you Ford Folks place too heavy a bet on on the Shelby GT 500 “Bad Boy” coming up in 2013. First of all, Road and Track Magazine did a road test on The 2011 Shelby GT 350 Mustang (versus a Hemi Challenger) with a whipple supercharged 624 horsepower, six speed tranny “full on track pack” weighing in at almost 4000 pounds and with all of that expensive and highly sought after Shelby equipment added onto this “track beast” (an 80K dollar beast no less) it still could only manage a 12.4 second @117 mph quater mile and a skidpad number of .99 g’s which is really quite good but….if you honestly compare the bad boy Shelby GT 350 to the Camaro ZL-1 you see that the Camaro (while heavier than the ‘Stang by almost 200 pounds) can still out perform the supercharged 624 hp Shelby 350 GT and my contention is that another 26 horsepower in the Shelby GT 500 at the same weight as the 350 Shelby still isn’t going to “blow the Camaro ZL-1 into the weeds”, at the drag strip or on the road course. At best (traction & suspension being an important factor here) the Shelby GT 500 might be more evenly matched and maybe pull a few “ticks” of a second at the dragstrip on the Camaro (more power and torque is always good) but at on the road courses…my money is still on the Camaro ZL-1 to give the Shelby GT 500 Mustang fits & one more thing, a lot depends on the right driver behind the wheel too. So, before you Ford Folks start to put all your eggs in one basket, consider that by the time the Shelby GT 500 is available to the public the Chevy Camaro engineer’s are not going to simply be “waiting for it” (the Shelby GT500) to arive and not have some trick up their sleeve. If you think that the current Camaro ZL-1 is stiuck with what you see now, rest assured that a few simple mods can push that superchared ZL-1 engine well into the horsepower range that the Shelby is reported to be producing. Personally I’m looking forward to seeing these two “Bad Boys” really get down and dirty on the street and on the track but like I said, Chevy is in this to battle to win and they are not going to simply “roll over and die” when the Shelby GT 500 shows it’s face in town. Think what you want, but I love seeing these two “Pony Cars” (yeah, right) go at it and knowing Chevrolet, be prepared for some more horsepower and torque coming in 2013 as they already have the suspension and chassis “down to a science”! Let the games begin!

good points. i don't understand a lot of these arguments here. its like they gin themselves up on a 3s 0-60 and low 10's for 1/4. There's a lot of delusion going on here. the supersnake has 750hp. and put down a 4.1s 0-60. the gt500 isn't much better. what good is power if you can't grip and corner. my money is on the zl1.

http://youtu.be/UskMEV0Z4Ys
go to 5:48

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by sed34

^^good points. i don't understand a lot of these arguments here. its like they gin themselves up on a 3s 0-60 and low 10's for 1/4. There's a lot of delusion going on here. the supersnake has 750hp. and put down a 4.1s 0-60. the gt500 isn't much better. what good is power if you can't grip and corner. my money is on the zl1.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UskMEV0Z4Ys" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
go to 5:48

Everybody around here seems to think that just because Ford couldn't put the power to the ground a couple of years ago automatically means they won't be able to do it with the next GT500. A number of sources are saying the '13 won't have this problem.

[sed34]

Originally Posted by nester7929

Everybody around here seems to think that just because Ford couldn't put the power to the ground a couple of years ago automatically means they won't be able to do it with the next GT500. A number of sources are saying the '13 won't have this problem.

well, we'll see. this isn't new. generally they have been having this problem. especially when you start getting into the 600 hp range. unless they come out with the car wearing drag slicks. and if that's the case put slicks on the zl1 too and then compare.

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by sed34

well, we'll see. this isn't new. generally they have been having this problem. especially when you start getting into the 600 hp range. unless they come out with the car wearing drag slicks. and if that's the case put slicks on the zl1 too and then compare.

From MotorTrend:

Anyone will tell you that the problem with the previous Shelby GT500 wasn't a lack of power -- it was actually putting that power down to the ground. The previous GT500's performance numbers were often traction-limited, resulting in a 0-60 time not much better than the Mustang GT. To deal with this problem, SVT engineers revised the six-speed manual transmission's gearing in an effort to make the GT500's power more usable. SVT ditched the 3.55 final drive ratio for a 3.31 final drive, and then optimized every gear (except fourth) to better use the newfound torque. SVT further beefed up the drivetrain with a dual-disc clutch and carbon-fiber drive shaft.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1jtEktBqH

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by IcePick06

Right here bro, by the famed Mustang Biased fanboys at Motortrend (read down to Randy Pobst's post towards the end. I'm pretty sure the guys had the Performance package on the GT500 in their latest test.

Randy Pobst--"Felt pretty well-balanced. A little bit of body roll, but stick. Lord have mercy, it's better than the Shelby GT500 we tested a while back. Handled better than a Porsche Cayman."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car_contender/

That other thread about magazine racers getting too caught up in the numbers is spot on IMO. Like I said in my first reply in this thread on the first page, it's not the numbers that really impress me from this review (even though a nearly 2.5 second victory is significant on such a short track), it's the manor in which this car went about achieving those numbers.

There's a reason why Motortrend brought the Boss LS instead of the 2012 GT500 for this test on the track. Even though the GT500 may be marginally faster than it on certain tracks, almost all the professional reviews regard the Boss LS as the best track day weapon of choice, the best Mustang ever.

It's not purely about the numbers, which car has the fastest 0-60, quarter mile time, or fastest lap on the track (all of which I'm sure the ZL1 will more than hold its own against the boys from Dearborn). To me, and what many are disregarding, it's about what is the best complete package and the most enjoyable and rewarding drivers car. That's what makes the Boss 302 LS so highly regarded by those that have actually driven one on the track and not just looked up numbers posted in a magazine. And that's what makes this review about the ZL1 so impressive.

In regards to that last point, Motortrend does a great job of summing up what makes a car truley special beyond the numbers. They define what a drivers car is in the article about the Boss 302 LS posted above:

ABOUT BEST DRIVER'S CAR

"What makes a great driver's car? Is it brute performance? Or gut-wrenching grip? What about balance and finesse, and the quality of the interaction between man and machine? We argue that a great driver's car has the chassis and powertrain and brakes and steering that enable the enthusiast driver to confidently explore the limits of its performance envelope, as well as his own. On top of all that, the best one also contains an X factor, a little something extra that elevates the breed.


Best Driver's Car is not a race. Numbers aren't everything. To get the fullest picture possible for each competing vehicle, we perform our normal battery of performance testing and real-world driving, and racetrack performance. Yet, while on-track performance is just one piece of a larger puzzle, it's without question the most fun. Join us each day as we introduce the contenders, with track results and impressions by master driver Randy Pobst, all leading up to the crowning of the 2011 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car."


That just about sums up what its all about perfectly IMO. The fact that the ZL1 seemed to clearly win out in this regard (as described by a respected pro driver no less) against Ford's best is what makes me most excited about this review, numbers be damned.

The ZL1 does indeed look to be the best drivers car in the segment per this review. That should be the focus for those of us who will be fortunate enough to actually own and drive these machines, not just make comments based off of magazine numbers. It's why the Boss 302 LS is regarded as the best Mustang ever, and it's why the ZL1 will be regarded as the best Camaro ever.