[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

...

You assume they are making a lighter Challenger, but there's been no word at all on a new platform which would be needed to make big progress in weight reduction. ...

Actually, its being said by a few media outlets that the underpinnings of this car will end up under the next Challenger:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413970

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Actually, its being said by a few media outlets that the underpinnings of this car will end up under the next Challenger:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413970

You are right, but it's also a higher end Alpha developed by a special team. There's no guarantee it will find it's way down the FCA lines. But it's not unreasonable Dodge would follow Chevy's approach and take platform designed to challenge the Germans and customize it for the Charger/Challenger. Would probably be 2018 before we would see it too.

[v8]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

One thing about the Hellcat is that they can't supply the engines fast enough. Italy hit a home run on that call. The goal of building cars is making money for your stockholders and Italy is doing just that with there Hellcat.
An issue Chevy still has is they tell you what you want rather than to give you what you want. An example is the Silverado 1500, Why do I have to buy an Ext Cab LTZ in order to get the 6.2 V-8?
Why can't I go to the dealer and buy a standard cab 1500 with a 6.2 V-8?
This is why Italy is doing well with there over bloated same old design Challenger. They are upping the performance end. You can bet that they are making a lighter more lethal version as we read this thread and they will kick Chevy's backside. Other than the C7 Chevy (and Caddy) has been playing catch up since the 60's and it took until now to get with the program. Thank you Mary Barra but GM (Chevy in particular) better get ahead of the others in creativity soon.

I'll agree with you. I believe consumers like HP and straight line speed more. The Hellcat is heavy and will not handle like a ZL1, but Dodge just can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand, just try to buy one. Also the 13/14 GT500 was powerful and fast. Look at the cost of a used one. They are holding their values really well. The ZL1 is a great track performer, but look at its resale value, its the worst of the 3. I'm hoping the next ZL1 (I pray we get one) does a fast 1/4. Chevy is third right now in that department and I would like them to be first.

[cwl011]

I beg to differ, NHRA Pro Stock leader board 11 out of the top 15 are chevy and #7 is a dodge. , I am just messing, i have faith they can produce something. That is if they are willing to out do the corvette.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Actually, its being said by a few media outlets that the underpinnings of this car will end up under the next Challenger:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413970

This recent report says FCA is delaying the new Jeep and other new platforms several years. The Challenger refresh was a good effort to remain relevant with an old platform knowing Ford and Chevy are going to leave them behind

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fcas-j...?.tsrc=applewf

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

One thing about the Hellcat is that they can't supply the engines fast enough. Italy hit a home run on that call. The goal of building cars is making money for your stockholders and Italy is doing just that with there Hellcat.
An issue Chevy still has is they tell you what you want rather than to give you what you want. An example is the Silverado 1500, Why do I have to buy an Ext Cab LTZ in order to get the 6.2 V-8?
Why can't I go to the dealer and buy a standard cab 1500 with a 6.2 V-8?
This is why Italy is doing well with there over bloated same old design Challenger. They are upping the performance end. You can bet that they are making a lighter more lethal version as we read this thread and they will kick Chevy's backside. Other than the C7 Chevy (and Caddy) has been playing catch up since the 60's and it took until now to get with the program. Thank you Mary Barra but GM (Chevy in particular) better get ahead of the others in creativity soon.

I agree with you too. It blows my mind why I can't get an LTZ regular cab with the 6.2. Don't get it. Dodge did an awesome thing when they came out with the hellcat. HP sells sports cars. Most people buying a sports want them for straight line speed and acceleration. The upcoming GT500 is gonna be a monster. Rumored ecoboost 5.0, but who knows we will see

I agree GM needs to go all out on the next ZL1 and not just stick with the LT4, move it up a notch and suprise with a new engine or bigger blower like someone mentioned. The horsepower wars will be exciting in the next few years.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I agree with you too. It blows my mind why I can't get an LTZ regular cab with the 6.2. Don't get it. Dodge did an awesome thing when they came out with the hellcat. HP sells sports cars. Most people buying a sports want them for straight line speed and acceleration. The upcoming GT500 is gonna be a monster. Rumored ecoboost 5.0, but who knows we will see

I agree GM needs to go all out on the next ZL1 and not just stick with the LT4, move it up a notch and suprise with a new engine or bigger blower like someone mentioned. The horsepower wars will be exciting in the next few years.

In 1998 the mustang GT had about the same horsepower as the 3800 v6 Camaro of the same year. Around 200 lol.
Meanwhile the ls1 came out...absolutely destroyed the gt for the next 4 years....didn't sell...and got discontinued. Camaro was destroying it since 93 with the lt1 and it wasn't selling that good either.
The 3rd gen did better at keeping up with the mustang in some years and it was slower in most trims. Also...the 5th gen...slower than the mustang at the strip...outsold the mustang.

What do you notice? In general public opinion the years that the Camaro did better was when the general public liked the look of it. Appearance is very high on the list. The 4th gen didn't look very good to a lot of the general public. It also could get pricey compared to the mustang if you went for an SS and some extra options. The 3rd gen outsold the mustang 4 or 5 different years I believe. Most liked how it looked at the time. The 4th gen came out and never sold more than the mustang for even one year....and was in another world at the strip compared to the mustang gt. The disparity between the two will likely never be that large again. But it never helped...enough.

Horsepower helps. But it isn't nearly as important as you think to the average buyer. Appearance, price, ride quality and interior aspects will come first.

Also...if you want to have any engine you want in all different types of configurations...it is going to make the given vehicle cost more. The more streamlined the assembly process can be the cheaper the vehicle can be produced. Im guessing that may have something to do with it on the Silverado's. But I agree it is nice to have plenty of choices...

[VADER SS L99]

I personally have no issue with the Challenger being as big as it is and not going around a track as well as a Mustang or Camaro. I kinda think its a little bit of a different class of car. Mustang/Camaro being Pony cars with the Challenger being a muscle car. Saying that, the car is way to heavy. Why they don't move to a aluminum block I will never understand. That would take 100lbs off the nose right there. Anyone remember how much better the 2011 GT500 was vs the 2010 model? The biggest change was the switch to a aluminum block but for the most part everything else stayed the same. The platform has been around so long that I'm sure they got their money out of it. They could very well make certain light weight additions to the car to get the weight down without changing the size and/or overall look of the car. That car just keeps getting heavier and heavier the longer its out.

[DanaM]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

I personally have no issue with the Challenger being as big as it is and not going around a track as well as a Mustang or Camaro. I kinda think its a little bit of a different class of car. Mustang/Camaro being Pony cars with the Challenger being a muscle car. Saying that, the car is way to heavy. Why they don't move to a aluminum block I will never understand. That would take 100lbs off the nose right there. Anyone remember how much better the 2011 GT500 was vs the 2010 model? The biggest change was the switch to a aluminum block but for the most part everything else stayed the same. The platform has been around so long that I'm sure they got their money out of it. They could very well make certain light weight additions to the car to get the weight down without changing the size and/or overall look of the car. That car just keeps getting heavier and heavier the longer its out.

Yeah I keep getting heavier and heavier the longer I'm out too LOL

[396ssrat]

I've driven the Camaro. it's a nice car but an ergonomic disaster. Seriousl, my 1966 Chevelle is much more comfortable to drive. I like hanging my arm out the window if I want. Can't do that in the Camaro. I can see all around the Chevelle without blind spots. Can't say that about the Camaro. Now, that said, the Camaro handles light years better and is by far superior in technology and emissions.
The Challenger is more comfortable to drive than the Camaro hands down.
My observation is objective, not biased.
The Corvette is simply in an elevated class over the Camaro as it should well be. It is a rare day to see a newer model Camaro lay down a number at the local Drag Strip. Just usually doesn't happen for some reason.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by v8

I wouldn't use the word humiliated, thats pretty strong. The last GT500 and Gen5 ZL1 have been around for years and the difference between the two is well know. Yes, the ZL1 is faster around the track, but not a lot faster. In a straight line the GT500 is much faster.

The ZL1 was built to compete with the previous versions of the GT500 and trust me, against those apparent dogs, the ZL1 "Humiliated" them. When Ford saw what the ZL1 could do, they bumped HP by 100 or so to beat the ZL1 at the drag strip if nothing else. It took Ford an additional 100HP to come even close to a ZL1...right?

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

So what happens when the new GT500 comes out that can handle and has a ton of horsepower? Should we just move on to another performance metric that the Camaro wins in and hang our hats on that?


*Future Camaro6 posts*
I don't care about handling, 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. Our Camaros produce less C02 per mile and that's all that matters.

Well, when they beat Chevy at anything, I will and do give them credit. I've had more Mustangs than I've had Camaros and I suppose that's giving Ford credit where it was due, from my perspective. I sold my 2008 Mustang Bullitt when I got beat by a Chevy Cobalt SS and haven't seen anything in the Ford line that I would trade my Chevys for since.

The "all new" Mustang is a joke and another secretary car as far as performance goes. What 10 more HP and 200 lbs in weight. They are now realizing what the IRS and the weight penalty cost the 2010 Camaro. Trust me, the base 2016 Camaro 1SS will do a job on the new Mustang GT and humiliate them on the road course and drag strip, so Ford will put out a $70k "collector car" that will win a few races against the base Camaro...that's been their MO for years.

As far as the cost of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, I only ever saw one in a Ford showroom and it had a significant dealer markup that made it $73K...that's not fiction, but fact and the 1LE Camaro beats it easily on road courses.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

I've driven the Camaro. it's a nice car but an ergonomic disaster. Seriousl, my 1966 Chevelle is much more comfortable to drive. I like hanging my arm out the window if I want. Can't do that in the Camaro. I can see all around the Chevelle without blind spots. Can't say that about the Camaro. Now, that said, the Camaro handles light years better and is by far superior in technology and emissions.
The Challenger is more comfortable to drive than the Camaro hands down.
My observation is objective, not biased.
The Corvette is simply in an elevated class over the Camaro as it should well be. It is a rare day to see a newer model Camaro lay down a number at the local Drag Strip. Just usually doesn't happen for some reason.

I bought a brand new Chevelle SS in 1966 after coming back from a remote tour with the AF. It was an awesome car and one I wish I had kept.

Having owned 2 5th Gen Camaros, I can only say that the enclosed feeling is something that dissipates after driving it for some time. It's no more difficult to drive, in my opinion, than any other car I've ever owned and it can't be overcome in a quick test drive. The appearance was what, again, in my opinion, was the reason the Camaro outsold the Mustang and the Challenger every year. It certainly wasn't because of it's performance since the Mustang GT was the winner of most of the performance competitions until Chevy got serious about fixing and re-engineering the suspension and created the 1LE and ZL1. In the end, the Camaro was not only a better looking car, but a better performer than comparable Challengers and Mustang 5.0s. There's no other reason for it's superior sales.

[LesserO2Evils]

I dont give a damn what anyone here says. After cross shopping a ZL1 and a GT500, the GT500 got my nod. There is WAY too much heresay in the controversial "track times" of both. I can find times that show the GT500 FASTER, just as those stating the ZL1 faster. Drive both- ZERO question. That being said, I have been a lifetime GM owner and could not WAIT to buy a ZL1! After driving both, I bought the Shelby. It is faster.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

I dont give a damn what anyone here says. After cross shopping a ZL1 and a GT500, the GT500 got my nod. There is WAY too much heresay in the controversial "track times" of both. I can find times that show the GT500 FASTER, just as those stating the ZL1 faster. Drive both- ZERO question. That being said, I have been a lifetime GM owner and could not WAIT to buy a ZL1! After driving both, I bought the Shelby. It is faster.

Nobody will ever argue the faster part of the equation with those two. No denying the power or power potential it offers with just bolt ons. I'd still rather have a zl1 just because I like the car itself better. Either way you can't go wrong.