[ilirg]

Yea I highly doubt the Mustang will lose weight mid cycle, pretty sure that ship has sailed. Power bump I can see, weight loss...no

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Has a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger ever lost weight mid life cycle? Maybe if there is a new engine/trans, but most cars gain weight during their life cycle. Maybe they will repackage the PP with some of the lightweight parts of the GT350 and drop weight that way.

He has been on a certain site way too much.

They thought the euro car was lighter because of some random half ass info guess who provided. So he started a rumor the car could be lightened easily. Well a couple guys do try to keep things in reality on that site and proved him wrong. They are essentially no lighter.

A lighter mustang while possible I suppose is nothing but a rumor conjured up by birth control.

Power bump yeah sure. But unless they have a whole new power plant a little revision won't get the job done. They are way down on torque. Just look how the current car runs right with the gt and it is 100 lbs heavier with 10 less hp. They need a good 30 hp bump to just be on par imo.

It will be interesting. Funny how they have to bump and bump and bump. While cool to a certain extent to keep things fresh... Makes it look to me like they are chasing. GM throws in a motor and it holds its own for ~5 years typically. Guess that's the advantage of obsolete pushrod motors.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I agree the new camaro will edge out the mustang but not by a huge margin. Yes it will beat it 0-60 and 1/4 mile but it still will be close and a drivers race. Mustang I'm sure won't let that last and bring some updates in 2017

what is close and a drivers race to you guys? To me it means within .2 tenths and 2mph. Anything beyond that is not close nor what I would call a drivers race. I personally think it will be at least .3 tenths and 3mph faster in the 1/4 .

[IOMike]

It was known for at least 2 if not 3 years the Camaro would lose weight and use the excellent Alpha chassis. It's also been known it would be around 450hp/450tq from the LT1. They didn't catch Ford off guard, Ford decided to not focus on increasing performance of the Gt and gtpp. Will the 2017 respond? Maybe. But they knew what was coming. It might be slightly better than their initial projections, but not much.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

what is close and a drivers race to you guys? To me it means within .2 tenths and 2mph. Anything beyond that is not close nor what I would call a drivers race. I personally think it will be at least .3 tenths and 3mph faster in the 1/4 .

They won't be very close. Sort kinda, if that makes them feel better.

No way it's not at least .4 seconds auto vs auto, GT vs SS. Could be as much as .5. That's an ass whopping.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by IOMike

They won't be very close. Sort kinda, if that makes them feel better.

No way it's not at least .4 seconds auto vs auto, GT vs SS. Could be as much as .5. That's an ass whopping.

I don't see the SS being more than .3 faster than the GT in the 1/4 mile. I hope it is faster than that but I'm betting it's not

[SpeedIsLife]

It looks like most BONE STOCK(on stock 235 rubber) 2015 GT automatics are roughly...

3.15: 12.7x-12.8x at 108-109

3.55: 12.5x-12.6x at 111-113

Again those are ranges. There have been 3.55 hero runs in the 12.4 range and 3.15's up in the ultra low 13's.

Most manual 15 GT'S have been in the 12.8x range

Now, the 2015 Scat Pack Challenger with the 8 speed is more aggressively geared both in the trans and rear end and they usually run about 12.4-12.6 on stock rubber. Thats with 485/470.

The Camaro will be less aggressive in gearing, lower in power but will be around 450lbs lighter( probably)

I would expect, based on those figures, that 12.2-12.3 will be every day possible with a good launch, good prep and good air.

[V6CamaroRS]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

It will be interesting. Funny how they have to bump and bump and bump. While cool to a certain extent to keep things fresh... Makes it look to me like they are chasing. GM throws in a motor and it holds its own for ~5 years typically. Guess that's the advantage of obsolete pushrod motors.

No need to go trolling for respones. The push-rod engine is no more obsolete than Ford's fuel injectors. Technologies themselves don't necessarily obsolete as much as approaches do. The technologies themselves have a way of cycling back when they once again line up with a more modern approach.

(Oh! Hello Tesla! How's that antiquated electric car business going?)

Originally Posted by IOMike

It was known for at least 2 if not 3 years the Camaro would lose weight and use the excellent Alpha chassis. It's also been known it would be around 450hp/450tq from the LT1. They didn't catch Ford off guard, Ford decided to not focus on increasing performance of the Gt and gtpp. Will the 2017 respond? Maybe. But they knew what was coming. It might be slightly better than their initial projections, but not much.

I personally suspect their projections were woefully inadequate. Yes, we knew Alpha was coming. But if I was a Ford engineer, I'd be thinking, "how cute! Camaro is finally catching up with how light and nimble our cars are!"

And then Ford added the independent rear suspension and found out just how hard it was to keep the car small and light. Meanwhile Chevy manages some computer modeling wizardry to not only make it a smaller car, but to shed some serious pounds while adding even more features!

Were all the clues there? Sure. But it was easy to get complacent and not realize just how fast Chevy was moving. Especially given that Chevy didn't really start showing their hand until the last few years. Before that, the stock Camaro lost against a comparable Mustang. Period.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by V6CamaroRS

No need to go trolling for respones. The push-rod engine is no more obsolete than Ford's fuel injectors. Technologies themselves don't necessarily obsolete as much as approaches do. The technologies themselves have a way of cycling back when they once again line up with a more modern approach.

(Oh! Hello Tesla! How's that antiquated electric car business going?)



I personally suspect their projections were woefully inadequate. Yes, we knew Alpha was coming. But if I was a Ford engineer, I'd be thinking, "how cute! Camaro is finally catching up with how light and nimble our cars are!"

And then Ford added the independent rear suspension and found out just how hard it was to keep the car small and light. Meanwhile Chevy manages some computer modeling wizardry to not only make it a smaller car, but to shed some serious pounds while adding even more features!

Were all the clues there? Sure. But it was easy to get complacent and not realize just how fast Chevy was moving. Especially given that Chevy didn't really start showing their hand until the last few years. Before that, the stock Camaro lost against a comparable Mustang. Period.

Been on here over 5 years with 2000 posts. Think I can post how I see things when I feel like it.

As for the mustang... Yeah it had its moment for 5 years in a strait line. In the corners about 2-3 years. Until then the gt couldn't even beat an ls1 designed in 1996. Excuse me for being unimpressed. Things are just getting back to normal is all. I agree with Mike... They seen this coming.

Ford has a history of being complacent with a power plant in the GT and updating. Example.... The 4.6 they stayed with for fifteen years. Things seem to be different now but we will see. They are interested in sales first when it comes to the GT. Which obviously is very important. But getting spanked didn't seem to bother them in the past when everyone and their brother was buying them.

We shall see...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Been on here over 5 years with 2000 posts. Think I can post how I see things when I feel like it.

As for the mustang... Yeah it had its moment for 5 years in a strait line. In the corners about 2-3 years. Until then the gt couldn't even beat an ls1 designed in 1996. Excuse me for being unimpressed. Things are just getting back to normal is all. I agree with Mike... They seen this coming.

Ford has a history of being complacent with a power plant in the GT and updating. Example.... The 4.6 they stayed with for fifteen years. Things seem to be different now but we will see. They are interested in sales first when it comes to the GT. Which obviously is very important. But getting spanked didn't seem to bother them in the past when everyone and their brother was buying them.

We shall see...

To be fair the 4.6 wasn't the same the entire time.

4.6 2V
4.6 2V PI
4.6 3V
4.6 3V 2010
4.6 4v (Cobra and Mach 1)
4.6 4v Terminator S/C

But I agree, the 4.6 soldiered on a bit too long. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't just make the 4.6 4v the standard GT motor in 05

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

Kind of a schizophrenic response. You say you lusted after the 5th gen, then disparage the new Camaro because it resembles the 5th gen? To paraphrase Tom Peters, he says this 6th gen. is the current car going on a diet and to the gym, and winds up with a physique that is more muscular and sinewy, instead of bloated and unwieldly (I embelished that last remark ).

To bring the current Mustang into the mix, I stated in another post that if compared to inantimate objects, the Mustang would be compared to a marshmallow...The new Camaro a switchblade.

Styling is subjective, but I'm getting a little tired of people who say they are in love with the 5th gen. looks, then freaked out because the 6th gen. has styling cues from the current model.

UPDATE : I just noticed the cars you drive...Pretty much explains everything you stated in your post.

Believe what you want but the new car resembles the current car only slightly and if you squint; all the cool edges have bee rounded of and I (personally) find the 6 gen, sedan like in its styling.

As for currently driving a Mustang... I was invited to the Camaro reveal in Detriot, were you?

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Been on here over 5 years with 2000 posts. Think I can post how I see things when I feel like it.

As for the mustang... Yeah it had its moment for 5 years in a strait line. In the corners about 2-3 years. Until then the gt couldn't even beat an ls1 designed in 1996. Excuse me for being unimpressed. Things are just getting back to normal is all. I agree with Mike... They seen this coming.

Ford has a history of being complacent with a power plant in the GT and updating. Example.... The 4.6 they stayed with for fifteen years. Things seem to be different now but we will see. They are interested in sales first when it comes to the GT. Which obviously is very important. But getting spanked didn't seem to bother them in the past when everyone and their brother was buying them.

We shall see...

Yeah, the 4.6 did not impress. I remember being exited when the "retro" Mustang came out. Drove it, and bought another BMW.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by cwl011

See for me the opposite has happened, I think the gen5 doesn't have the fizz for me. Even though the gen6 has similar characteristics of the gen5 I still think it is the best looking inside and out. Since I have a career in the technology I think they have done a fine job adding enough for my likings. If the gen6 didn't get me this excited I would be getting a left over gen5 but no matter how much I look at the deals I can't convince myself to get a left over gen5

While the outside didn't excite me as much as I hoped (maybe my expectations were too high), the interior was a win for sure.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Whoa whoa whoa...Fender has been a member of this site for a long while and contributes nicely. He always states his opinions fair, and doesn't bash, and I believe genuinely likes the Camaro. But he also likes other cars too? (wow, what the heck...we CAN like more than one brand??? Who'd of thunk it???)



I respect him, and you judged too soon.



Now back to the topic at hand.



I too, feel the 2016 Camaro will trounce the 2016 Mustang in just about every way, from a performance stand-point. It also seems to offer more content, (interior features) for those that crave that sort of thing.



It will weigh the same, or maybe slightly less, with more torque, more HP, and in the auto, has more gears (auto-equipped Camaro is going to really put the distance on the Mustang in the 1/4 in my mind). As for handling,...its Alpha. Nuff said. It will also offer MRC....which we all know is proven to be fantastic. It will outhandle GTPP Mustang.



Looks are subjective, but for me, while I think the Mustang is nice looking, and can be pretty sweet when modded correctly....it doesn't give me the "fizz" while the Camaro does. I also very much like the interior, so there's that.



But we can expect Ford to answer back, and they will.

I appreciate you having my back, thanks!