Do you think GM missed the ball my making the z/28 a track only car?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Boris632

Not beating up just potentially disappointed. Reading through more and more on this car I realize it is a beast and should be celebrated as such.

It is way more than i expected GM to do.

As for price there comes a point when the $$ for this car approaches an amount that I might want to spend elsewhere.

Example - I would love to build a killer 1st gen camaro with all the DSE gear and an LSX power plant. For what i would want to build that would push the 60k mark.

If the Z/28 was 50k - id jump at the new Z/28. If it is more like 70k then I have to think long and hard about what I really want to do.

I may have been a bit harsh in earlier posts but I do have a price point in mind. If it blows past that then the Z/28 will not be in my future.

Frankly, Boris, it's a LOT more car than I expected...or requested...but "it is what it is", and will have a correspondingly higher price point than "just" a 1LE-LS7 would have required. With a correspondingly increased performance potential... But throwing a hydro-formed DSE front end and LSX driveline under a '69 Camaro ain't cheap, either.

Unless you just won the PowerBall, or are a trust-fund recipient, you (like me) only have so many beans to bake into a "fun ride". A DSE-inspired LS-engined '69 would be very cool...and likely as plentiful as the '14 ZEE will be...

BTW, Kyle Tucker of DSE has an entry in this year's One Lap of America, which runs in about a month. We'll see how he does against the recently all-conquerring GT-Rs...

[LOWDOWN]

Something unmentioned in this thread so far (iirc) is the fact this iteration of the ZEE is potentially a game-changer for others. Mopar and Ford BOTH will be obliged to answer this "shot across the bow" with something both "able" AND "streetable", NOT just a race-ready COPO-style "not street-legal" version. Why? Because, NOW, their loyalists EXPECT and DEMAND such a piece...

THAT, folks, is the "power" AND "influence" of a well-executed "halo" product. Not just on "your" product line, but others, as well...

[Z4me]

Darn this is one long thread, and no way have I read all the pages. But to the OP, I believe they were listening to the readers on these forums concerning thier opinions of what the Z28 should be. For that reason alone, I feel they were right on course with this car. Hopefully they can keep th price under 60k, but will
have to wait and see how that plays out. I can't wait to see one and person and check out those seats and the sound of that engine.

[90503]

Originally Posted by 360ss

I'm not saying ur wrong but , how you figure?

Originally Posted by Wizard1183

No. $100,000 for a camaro besides the COPO? Wont happen. Ppl might as well jump up and grab a lighter weight car with perhaps a bit less or equal HP to the LS7 and have basically a track luxury car. In other words, if youre going to spend 6 figures, youre retarded not to go euro with it. The Z is 38-3900 lbs. Still too much weight in my opinion. But they've done an excellent job with the car.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

THAT, folks, is the "power" AND "influence" of a well-executed "halo" product. Not just on "your" product line, but others, as well...

I put out the 100K price...and here's some of my reasons why....After reading most of the posts discussing the pros and cons of this Z/28 from racers, the GM folks, and all the other interested members, what sticks out most to me is this: (gonna paraphrase best I can)...

"The car is targeted for a sub-set of those who actually track their cars"...

"Z/28 has out performed more than just the ZL1, but other more exotic and way more expensive track cars...."

"It's street-legal, but not meant for the street"...

"It's production numbers will be limited"...

Those ideas and others, tell me that this is definitely "Not the car for you...if...etc."...(Definitely not for me)...

It is the "Halo Car" and a "game-changer"....

I think the rationale for comparing it's features and pricing as if it's another assembly line car, like the ZL1 and even the Corvettes, to try and guesstimate a price for the Z/28 are way off and do not, and cannot apply to this car....It is beyond any leap-frog game to compete with lot sales for a comparable Ford or Dodge...It's gonna be a world-class competitor and winner on the world-stage...and will be priced accordingly...

...Not trying to be a downer or negative at all...I think when it comes to what we expect or what we think this car is all about, we haven't really seen anything yet...and the price will fall into that category also...

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by 90503

I put out the 100K price...and here's some of my reasons why....After reading most of the posts discussing the pros and cons of this Z/28 from racers, the GM folks, and all the other interested members, what sticks out most to me is this: (gonna paraphrase best I can)...

"The car is targeted for a sub-set of those who actually track their cars"...

"Z/28 has out performed more than just the ZL1, but other more exotic and way more expensive track cars...."

"It's street-legal, but not meant for the street"...

"It's production numbers will be limited"...

Those ideas and others, tell me that this is definitely "Not the car for you...if...etc."...(Definitely not for me)...

It is the "Halo Car" and a "game-changer"....

I think the rationale for comparing it's features and pricing as if it's another assembly line car, like the ZL1 and even the Corvettes, to try and guesstimate a price for the Z/28 are way off and do not, and cannot apply to this car....It is beyond any leap-frog game to compete with lot sales for a comparable Ford or Dodge...It's gonna be a world-class competitor and winner on the world-stage...and will be priced accordingly...

...Not trying to be a downer or negative at all...I think when it comes to what we expect or what we think this car is all about, we haven't really seen anything yet...and the price will fall into that category also...

IF this car is prices at $90k+, its HUGELY over priced. Heres my reason why: The parts added to the car do NOT compensate for a price near this amount. An LS7 minus an LS3, seats, shaved glass, racing tires, CC brakes and suspension do not add up to $55000. My question is what kind of suspension was put on the car? MRC'd suspension to me would be THE suspension for the car which is doesnt include meaning its suspension costs less than MRC.No way this car is priced near your mark.

[Boris632]

Originally Posted by Wizard1183

IF this car is prices at $90k+, its HUGELY over priced. Heres my reason why: The parts added to the car do NOT compensate for a price near this amount. An LS7 minus an LS3, seats, shaved glass, racing tires, CC brakes and suspension do not add up to $55000. My question is what kind of suspension was put on the car? MRC'd suspension to me would be THE suspension for the car which is doesnt include meaning its suspension costs less than MRC.No way this car is priced near your mark.

I tend to agree.

The retail on a complete LS7 is 18-20k. Id bet the LS7 then costs GM about 5-7k to make (GM to distributor to retailer to customer - everyone has to get theirs).

Seats will be slightly more but you are replacing the old seats so maybe 1000 on the very high end

The other stuff is more expensive but once again it is replacing a stock part. The cost is not added in on top of the stock parts.

I am willing to bet this will also be built on the line with the regular Camaros(i have not seen anything that states otherwise so if you have it please link it for me). So overhead and labor are equal to that of a Camaro.

In my head im thinking this is a 60k car. I don't think it really can be much more because of the Corvette and CTS-V.

I know this is a track car well - those two are also track capable cars and one brings a boatload of luxury with it.

If it gets to the 70k mark then you will have people opting for a Z06. If it touches 100k now you are in ZR1 land.

Any track happy person picking the Z/28 over the ZR1 or Z06 would seem silly to me (but we all have our own tastes so...)

I really think it depends on what GM wants to do with it. If it is a limited number run then it will probably be very expensive. If anyone who wants one can get it - then i think in the 50s for this car. maybe even high 40s.

[Boris632]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Something unmentioned in this thread so far (iirc) is the fact this iteration of the ZEE is potentially a game-changer for others. Mopar and Ford BOTH will be obliged to answer this "shot across the bow" with something both "able" AND "streetable", NOT just a race-ready COPO-style "not street-legal" version. Why? Because, NOW, their loyalists EXPECT and DEMAND such a piece...

THAT, folks, is the "power" AND "influence" of a well-executed "halo" product. Not just on "your" product line, but others, as well...

I don't think Chrysler/Fiat is interested. I mean they started the Factory S/S competition back up but you really don't see much in the way of performance track Challengers. Hell they even locked their ecu's so aftermarket companies like procharger have had a heck of a time developing a system for them.

Chrysler did make their Charger SRT and going for the fast family car market (which i almost bought last year but the wife thought it was ugly )

I think the competition is Ford v Chevy here. A new Mustang is in the works and they are taking notes. I bet they fire back with something big that is unless the government gets in the way

[Boris632]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Frankly, Boris, it's a LOT more car than I expected...or requested...but "it is what it is", and will have a correspondingly higher price point than "just" a 1LE-LS7 would have required. With a correspondingly increased performance potential... But throwing a hydro-formed DSE front end and LSX driveline under a '69 Camaro ain't cheap, either.

Unless you just won the PowerBall, or are a trust-fund recipient, you (like me) only have so many beans to bake into a "fun ride". A DSE-inspired LS-engined '69 would be very cool...and likely as plentiful as the '14 ZEE will be...

BTW, Kyle Tucker of DSE has an entry in this year's One Lap of America, which runs in about a month. We'll see how he does against the recently all-conquerring GT-Rs...

Oh I know what you mean. I have the ability and the tools (well with my brothers as well) to build a screaming 69 pro touring car. I rode in a well sorted 68 with the speedtech track kit on it with a 468 big block and would just love to drive that beast every day.

But I also have a 55 that is a street/strip project as well. It gets to a point that if this Z/28 goes over that - i have a hard time justifying it over building another pro-touring car. If it is under that then the choice becomes a bit easier. Less money + warranty + just as fast out of the box factory hot rod = win in my book.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Boris632

If it touches 100k now you are in ZR1 land.

At 100k I would expect it to NOT come with a proper VIN.



Norm

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Frankly, Boris, it's a LOT more car than I expected...or requested...but "it is what it is", and will have a correspondingly higher price point than "just" a 1LE-LS7 would have required.

So what do you think the car will MSRP for?

[LOWDOWN]

Since you asked, directly (I've avoided the "guessin' game", thus far), I'm a-thinkin' $60ish... Frankly, folks, these $70-80-90+ guesses are only going to encourage a potentially higher price point, imvho.

LS7s possess about $6,000 worth of ti rods, bought individually and at Retail. The selling price of that engine in crate form (as low as $13ish) leaves little in the way of profit. Special features add special costs. The brakes aren't NAPA pieces...yada yada yada... Add all that, and cert/val costs, to a 1SS/1LE and you'll easily top the ZL1...but HOPEFULLY not by much!

[OldScoolCamaro]

......I agree with Lowdown and his price perspective. We went through the same guessing game and commentary over the ZL1, and... most were pleasantly to very surprised at the MSRP, despite all that it had to offer. I predict the Z/28 will be the same way, another huge bang for the buck.

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Since you asked, directly (I've avoided the "guessin' game", thus far), I'm a-thinkin' $60ish... Frankly, folks, these $70-80-90+ guesses are only going to encourage a potentially higher price point, imvho.

LS7s possess about $6,000 worth of ti rods, bought individually and at Retail. The selling price of that engine in crate form (as low as $13ish) leaves little in the way of profit. Special features add special costs. The brakes aren't NAPA pieces...yada yada yada... Add all that, and cert/val costs, to a 1SS/1LE and you'll easily top the ZL1...but HOPEFULLY not by much!

Right, I'm with you on that. MSRP won't be more than $62k. Dealer mark up and your tapping $70k out the door.

[brt3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Something unmentioned in this thread so far (iirc) is the fact this iteration of the ZEE is potentially a game-changer for others. Mopar and Ford BOTH will be obliged to answer this "shot across the bow" with something both "able" AND "streetable", NOT just a race-ready COPO-style "not street-legal" version. Why? Because, NOW, their loyalists EXPECT and DEMAND such a piece...

THAT, folks, is the "power" AND "influence" of a well-executed "halo" product. Not just on "your" product line, but others, as well...

Good point. Ford only makes one car that's even close, at present -- and it doesn't have a VIN. The Boss 302S is the only Ford that stands a chance of sticking with the Z/28 on a road course, and it's left at the gates (or on the trailer) when you drive the Z/28 home...