GT350 revealed to be a Z/28 competitor? thoughts?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

When the new car beats the old car, the old car fans use this excuse while the new car fans ignore it. Been there with the Boss 302 which was "beaten" by the 1LE, Zl1 and Z/28 all after the fact. Still beaten though, right?

The BOSS, 1LE and ZL1 were in production at the same time. The Z/28 was clearly not built to take on the BOSS. The two were never ran against each other for a magazine comparison.

ThePill claimed the Z/28 being faster than the BOSS was irrelevant because the BOSS wasn't in production anymore. I think it's a bullshit argument but if he is going to use that for the BOSS, it should apply to the Z/28 as well.

[Mgizzle]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Okay..lets just have a little talk..all numbers here are shots in the dark.

The GT350 is lighter than the Mustang GT, Ford has confirmed this. Now, the question remains what version is it lighter than. Let us just just a weight loss of 30lbs vs a Mustang GT. If you measure that from a 3,815lb loaded GT premium, that would put the GT350 at 3,785 lbs.

So, we'll now go with what Ford has said about the GT350R, that it is 130lbs lighter than a GT350 with the track pack. Lets assume the "Track Pack" gobbles back up the 30lbs savings the normal GT350 has saved and takes the GT350 back to 3,815 lbs. Take 130lbs from that and you get 3,685. Realistically that is the upper MAX for a normal GT350R.

If Ford used a base GT PP as the comparison point for the GT350, then the weight drops down to about 3,615lbs for a GT350R.

There are several things that are lighter in the GT350 vs the regular Mustang:

The radiator support is a carbon fiber composite

The front bumper support is aluminum vs steel in the GT

The oil pan on the 5.2 FPC motor is a composite vs steel

No engine cover on the 5.2 vs cover on the 5.0

That's just what Ford has disclosed, and that alone is a good 32lbs off the front end alone in the GT350. The new transmission is lighter than the MT82 and the Tr6060...the list goes on.

I know you're trying to convince yourself that the new GT350(and R) are going to be just as heavy as the Z/28, but every indication is pointing to it being about 150-250lbs lighter.

I havent seen anything where ford said the 350 is lighter than a GTPP. Can someone post an official link? There is just no way they can start in the 3600lbs range .. no way. The base gt350 will be close to 4000lbs. As far as CCM fronts.... ok... rears are 380mm cast irons vs very small GT PP ones. The radiators are larger... more fluid and extra coolers means more oil. Wheels are wider on base 350 ao wheel tire combo is heavier. Torsen diff will be very heavy as compared to the GTPP. Half shafts too probably. 5.2 engine will need more oil for the higher decel starvation....even with more baffles.

I would truly take my hat off to Ford if the 350R is below 3800lbs. Not to speak of the base 350. Cant wait to hear.

PS... ford never released laptimes because it always got smoked. They spun it into " we dont do laptimes" and into " we dont gives laguna secas for 1le comparisons". Lets be honest, these are track cars.... laptimes are mostly what happens. Pretty soon Ford will say "horsepower doesnt matter" huh?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Mgizzle

I havent seen anything where ford said the 350 is lighter than a GTPP. Can someone post an official link? There is just no way they can start in the 3600lbs range .. no way. The base gt350 will be close to 4000lbs. As far as CCM fronts.... ok... rears are 380mm cast irons vs very small GT PP ones. The radiators are larger... more fluid and extra coolers means more oil. Wheels are wider on base 350 ao wheel tire combo is heavier. Torsen diff will be very heavy as compared to the GTPP. Half shafts too probably. 5.2 engine will need more oil for the higher decel starvation....even with more baffles.

I would truly take my hat off to Ford if the 350R is below 3800lbs. Not to speak of the base 350. Cant wait to hear.

PS... ford never released laptimes because it always got smoked. They spun it into " we dont do laptimes" and into " we dont gives laguna secas for 1le comparisons". Lets be honest, these are track cars.... laptimes are mostly what happens. Pretty soon Ford will say "horsepower doesnt matter" huh?

So the GT350 is going to gain almost 175lbs over a fully loaded GT PP?

Use of composites, CFC radiator support, cloth recaro seats=heavier than a GT PP with heated, cooled, power adjustable seats with a 9 speaker sound system+amp and sub? What?

I cannot tell if you're serious or trolling, that is how absurd those numbers are.

[hognutz]

I can't wait to see numbers. IE weight, hp etc.

I still would buy the GT350 not the R in my case. just like the 2000 cobra R though the GT350R has a fuctional wing that looks like dog turds as is tradition I guess.

So far buzz is that the R will be pretty limited but that is how the Z28 buzz started and it is not true now.



as far as comparison it is simple for me these cars are all really quick around a track I just want one that fits my budget/needs. the GT350 has caught my eye hoping that is a more effecient use of power. IE quick, good milage, good handling, etc. The Z/28 was too much when it hit. now they will deal on them dependin on the price and wieght of the GT350 it might be more to my liking.

[Chrispy]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Funny. Just like my 13 year old daughter, she can't tell cars apart either. My 11 year old son, however can spot the smallest variation a mile away. He's the one who tells me what the trim level Camaro we just passed is.

Ha you're funny...I guess you missed my other post:

I don't dislike the performance potential of the car at all and I like how they pursued weight reduction like GM did with the Z/28. I'm looking forward to seeing some real numbers like Nurburgring times and other circuit times.

That said I do think the exterior redesign is incoherent and an epic fail on Ford's part.

The front end looks terrible and the rear spoiler looks like something out of a Jegs catalog. (I do like the roofline and the rear design (minus the spoiler). The interior looks cool as well.

I personally am not "scared" of the GT350R. It's going to be a very limited production run of a very expensive car that will likely only be on par or marginally quicker than the Z/28 on a road circuit.

When the 6th gen Z/28 or ZL1 is revealed the performance edge will swing again...

I see you're in Oakville. Do you hit the track at all? Maybe we'll be at Cayuga or St. Thomas at the same time and can run our cars heads up...

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by ZL1Dan

Calm down, Francis.

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Excellent movie quote... lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Nailed it

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

Nailed it

Actually, not nailed. The quote is, "Lightnen up, Francis!", not, "calm down".

[Mgizzle]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So the GT350 is going to gain almost 175lbs over a fully loaded GT PP?

Use of composites, CFC radiator support, cloth recaro seats=heavier than a GT PP with heated, cooled, power adjustable seats with a 9 speaker sound system+amp and sub? What?

I cannot tell if you're serious or trolling, that is how absurd those numbers are.

Look, I am not trolling guys I am truly curious and trying to use reason as to how this car will perform. A z/28 is 20-30 lbs less than a SS or 1LE with 20" Rims, heavier battery and cast iron brakes. A composite radiator brace for example tells me they showed a bigger radiator, thicker core most likely, and instead of steel they had to go to a larger composite support. What are we talkin...1-2lbs less for a radiator that adds 10lbs in fluids and material.

Not hating on the 350R... but 3600-3800lbs is highly optimistic. So enough on mass we will see soon.

Lets talk engine. What makes you guys think the 5.2 will overpower a 7 liter? Ok high hp number at very high rpm but the area under the curve will be interesting. Torque has to be lower over the area (peak values mean nothing like peak torque or hp). Also no drysump? With those tires I am very curious how they keep it oiled.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So the GT350 is going to gain almost 175lbs over a fully loaded GT PP?

Use of composites, CFC radiator support, cloth recaro seats=heavier than a GT PP with heated, cooled, power adjustable seats with a 9 speaker sound system+amp and sub? What?

I cannot tell if you're serious or trolling, that is how absurd those numbers are.

Mcgizzles sarcastic post about ford sucking and saying "ford is going to say horsepower doesn't matter" reminds of when GM did simulations of the ZL1 beating the 13' GT500. We know what the real life numbers were. Ford wouldn't say that because horsepower won that battle.

Anyhow, I'm extremely curios to see what type of 1/4 mile times are released. I could care less about ring times since I'll never have enough money to get license in Europe and ship my car there. The GT350 should weigh a bit less than a GT, but, I'll see it when I believe it.

[Chrispy]

Originally Posted by Grabber

Mcgizzles sarcastic post about ford sucking and saying "ford is going to say horsepower doesn't matter" reminds of when GM did simulations of the ZL1 beating the 13' GT500. We know what the real life numbers were. Ford wouldn't say that because horsepower won that battle.

Anyhow, I'm extremely curios to see what type of 1/4 mile times are released. I could care less about ring times since I'll never have enough money to get license in Europe and ship my car there. The GT350 should weigh a bit less than a GT, but, I'll see it when I believe it.

I'm more of a drag racer as well...that said whichever car is fastest on the ring will likely be fastest on any road circuit in North America. They just use that track as a benchmark due to it's complexity / difficulty / history / marketing.

[Mgizzle]

To be honest I would love VIR times more than ring times. Any track really would give us a good idea.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mgizzle

PS... ford never released laptimes because it always got smoked. They spun it into " we dont do laptimes" and into " we dont gives laguna secas for 1le comparisons". Lets be honest, these are track cars.... laptimes are mostly what happens. Pretty soon Ford will say "horsepower doesnt matter" huh?

NO Ford just have never released lap times period. Ever. They have tested lots of cars on the ring, never released lap times for any of them. I think team RS did the Focus RS time but there are no official times from Ford for the ring. Maybe they don't value ring times as a marketing tool.

and you seem very confident this car is going to be a porker. this is from Fords press release

Weight reduction in pursuit of performance
Ford engineers delivered against aggressive targets for weight reduction on the Shelby GT350R. If a part did not make the car faster around a road course, it was considered for deletion.

Items removed include air conditioning, the stereo system, rear seats, trunk floorboard and carpet, backup camera and emergency tire sealer and inflator. Exhaust resonators also have been removed for weight savings with the benefit of creating a sharper exhaust tone.

"Shelby GT350R is more than 130 pounds lighter than the Shelby GT350 Track Pack model, "

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by K1SSRSS

So I guess you are discounting the 67 z/28 with the first and best 302?

A/C wasn't even an option.

See how this works.

Yup . . . the original GT350 debuted in 1965 . . . with a few specifically built as "R" versions for B Production.

Originally Posted by Mgizzle

Look, I am not trolling guys I am truly curious and trying to use reason as to how this car will perform. A z/28 is 20-30 lbs less than a SS or 1LE with 20" Rims, heavier battery and cast iron brakes. A composite radiator brace for example tells me they showed a bigger radiator, thicker core most likely, and instead of steel they had to go to a larger composite support. What are we talkin...1-2lbs less for a radiator that adds 10lbs in fluids and material.

Not hating on the 350R... but 3600-3800lbs is highly optimistic. So enough on mass we will see soon.

Keep in mind the Camaro's slightly larger dimensions - about 5" in wheelbase and 2" in overall length. Width and height are about a wash.

Lets talk engine. What makes you guys think the 5.2 will overpower a 7 liter? Ok high hp number at very high rpm but the area under the curve will be interesting. Torque has to be lower over the area (peak values mean nothing like peak torque or hp). Also no drysump? With those tires I am very curious how they keep it oiled.

As long as the gear spacing doesn't cause the revs to drop much below the torque peak, the area under the torque curve actually used, times the gearing to use it at similar speeds might be closer than you think. Out of the powerband it's a different story, but if this happens to you on the track it's your driving mistake rather than the car's. On the street . . . meh, there's always somebody faster anyway.

On the subject of oiling, yes, I agree. 1g lateral + any roll at all → oil trying to move up into the outboard valve/cam cover. But how much does anybody really know about the oiling system of this engine, other than it apparently being wet-sump?


Norm

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by Grabber

^^^ VADER - Remember the Cobra R? That was a production car that was out during the 98-02 F-Body and it was faster in a straight line and around a track. The 96-98 Cobra's gave the LS1's a run for their money as well and they were a generation older than the 98-02 LS1's. The 99-01 Cobra's were solid cars, but, couldn't really compete.

I so hope this is a sarcastic post or you were high typing it because otherwise its a huge epic fail on your part.

You actually want to put a car that has only 2 seats, no radio, no ac, only 300 built and a starting MSRP of almost $55k into a conversation with a car that has a starting MSRP of only $23k?????????????!!!!!!!!! That's pretty funny. Someone could have bought a Vette that year for much less, put a little money into it, smoked the 2000 Cobra R all while rocking out to some tunes and not breaking a sweat with the cold AC running. Meanwhile the Cobra R owner has to drive home with only the silence of his defeat sweating balls in his way overpriced rare car with ricers pulling up asking him where he got that cool wing. Or someone could have waited a year and spent way less money on a Z06 to beat the Cobra R all while having AC, radio and the same number of seats minus the gay wing.

Then there is the 96-98 Cobra that was slower than the 96-97 SS so not real sure what your talking about there since a 98 Z28 is faster than a 96-97 SS.