Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How so?

The 1LE is a track package. So is the Mustang PP. The 1LE is better but that doesn't make the Mustang a poser, just not as good.

If there are two of anything one is always going to be better and one is always not.

Besides... what percentage of 1LE owners do you think have actually ever tracked their car? I would guess, generously, 10%. So are 1LE owners who haven't tracked their car posers for owning one?

He was responding to the quote above him. The guy said the 1LE is more of a "hardcore" track car than the Mustang PP. No it is not! Both are "track packs" for standard V8 models. Ford just didn't give theirs enough performance to beat the 1LE. It's pretty cut and dry.

[woodside783]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

No, no, no! It's the tires, it gained weight, the driver is bias and a secret agent from GM and Ford is secretly making it worse so they can make it better later.

BwaaaaHaHaHa, they'd have really lost their minds if they had brought out a ZL1 let alone a Z/28.

.

This is the best I have seen to day

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by GONIF

None of us get's great fuel mileage.

Speak for yourself. My 1LE is my daily commuter. My commute is approximately 22 miles each way. I commute with my wife in the car, we work only about 2 miles away from each other. I'm getting 18mpg in mixed driving. The low-end of the LS3 allows me to upshift at 2K RPM in every gear - which is generally how I drive when my wife is in the car. The vehicle is still plenty quick enough at these RPMS for on-ramps, merges, and passing. I've taken 3 road trips with the car since April, the first was on the second day of ownership when I drove 700 miles home - I was doing high-load pulls for much of that trip, so that's not a good indication of mileage. But on the other two trips (1 to Boston, 1 to Hershey PA), I got 24 and 25mpg respectively.

My wife's 2007 Subaru Tribeca gets 17mpg in mixed driving on the same commuting route, and gets 23mpg on the highway. My 2009 V6 Accord (which used to be my DD) got 18mpg city and 25mpg highway. In other words, my 1LE is as fuel efficient at my Honda and more fuel efficient than my wife's Subaru. Clearly the manual transmission helps with that, as neither of the other cars allowed me to keep RPMs that low ... but their smaller displacement wouldn't have allowed me to keep them that low even if the transmissions did.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Speak for yourself. My 1LE is my daily commuter. My commute is approximately 22 miles each way. I commute with my wife in the car, we work only about 2 miles away from each other. I'm getting 18mpg in mixed driving. The low-end of the LS3 allows me to upshift at 2K RPM in every gear - which is generally how I drive when my wife is in the car. The vehicle is still plenty quick enough at these RPMS for on-ramps, merges, and passing. I've taken 3 road trips with the car since April, the first was on the second day of ownership when I drove 700 miles home - I was doing high-load pulls for much of that trip, so that's not a good indication of mileage. But on the other two trips (1 to Boston, 1 to Hershey PA), I got 24 and 25mpg respectively.

My wife's 2007 Subaru Tribeca gets 17mpg in mixed driving on the same commuting route, and gets 23mpg on the highway. My 2009 V6 Accord (which used to be my DD) got 18mpg city and 25mpg highway. In other words, my 1LE is as fuel efficient at my Honda and more fuel efficient than my wife's Subaru. Clearly the manual transmission helps with that, as neither of the other cars allowed me to keep RPMs that low ... but their smaller displacement wouldn't have allowed me to keep them that low even if the transmissions did.

I second that. For a 426 hp 6.2L V8 in a car that's 4000 lbs or more with me in inside it is crazy fuel efficient even when compared to lighter lower horsepower cars and one of the main reasons is because it's a pushrod motor.

[Stingray]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

He was responding to the quote above him. The guy said the 1LE is more of a "hardcore" track car than the Mustang PP. No it is not! Both are "track packs" for standard V8 models. Ford just didn't give theirs enough performance to beat the 1LE. It's pretty cut and dry.

It's ashame the new 5.0 is taking a social media beating due to this head-to-head... what do you expect when even the Mustang's Chief Engineer said they are shooting above & beyond- targeting 911's and M3's alike, not the Camaro's any longer. In short, it's a straighforward performance metric shortcoming... a major one too since Camaros and Mustangs are always looked at as perfect rivals.

[GONIF]

I give up , if you thing a OHV engine is better than a DOCH or SOHC ,the rest of the auto industry must be wrong including MB, BMW ,Audi, Rolls Royce ,Bentley, Ferrari, Ford, Honda ,Toyota , Mazda, Porsche, Aston Martin, Jag ,Bugatti ect ect ect. No point in going on you will not convince me and I will not convince you . The future is OHC until electric powered cars kick every other type of powers ass . The M1 Garand was the best at one time too.

[Jc's1LE]

Why is it all the Mustang people are like well if it had the same tire set up this would be a different story??

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Believe it or not a 346 with 4 valves per cylinder and DOHC could make 500 RWHP without a problem. So what if it weighs 30 to 50lbs more and is 2 inches wider.

Why stop there? Let's go absurdly oversquare (no stroke, all piston), throw in titanium rods, push the redline to 10K RPM (Nascar style), and we'll make 750+ HP all-motor out of 358 cubic inches. We'll be idling at 2K RPM, the motor won't make any power below 6K, and we'll be getting mid single-digit fuel mileage around town and low teens on the highway.

I mean, the rest of America, like you, cannot care about fuel mileage since we all have oil rigs in our backyards. No one rides with other people in the car so not being able to hold a simple conversation with a passenger is irrelevant to.

These are mass produced vehicles. You want "the best technology a manufacturer can provide" ... then pony up for the Zondas, Bugattis, and Koenigseggs of the world. You want to buy a car whose production numbers have 6 or more 0s after them, you deal with the fact that that manufacturer is going to have to build motors for the masses. For every Camaro enthusiast here on C5, there are 2000 Camaro owners who have no idea what a small-block is and bought that 2015 1LT RS because it looked sporty and they really liked the color

[alaskacamaro]

I was very surprised it wasn't a closer race. Surprised even more the host commented the GT drove the same as the older non IRS models..

I am still not a fan of that new fusionisk front end. The interior looks exactly like any GT I have seen except for the suspension mode setting switches..

[GONIF]

Ford is a direct /same price competitor ,and were the Coyote engine 6.3 liter ,it would flat out kill the pushrod LS3 , 74 cubic inches is a lot to give up . So apples to apples cubic inches to same cubic inches . DOHC multi valve has better breathing capacity' i.e. volumetric efficiency especially at lower valve lifts. ...Proven time and time again . Will a OHV engine win LeMans ever again ? Will Porsche ever go back to OHV ? As Danny Divito said in the movie Other peoples money ' I bet the last company that made buggy whips probably made the best buggy whip ever made. I want to see a DOHC 376 ci NA motor in a 3000 pound C7 . Now that would be a world beater ,until GM turbo charges a DOHC V8 .

[X25]

The future is neither DOHC, nor OHV. Who knows what will prevail until gas engines die completely, but looks like some kind of smart valvetrain, like magnetic valves might win. Imagine an engine with no camshaft, and valvetrain operated by compact electromagnetic controllers, where the valves can open faster than the most aggressive cam, yet is still reliable. Oh, the possibilities... : )

OHV has limitations (especially on cam timing), but time and time again, GM proved that benefits outweigh the compromises. I am sure one day it won't make sense, and will be replaced by a better technology, but make no mistake, DOHC is also on its way out. We'll see...

[MagnumForceGB]

Originally Posted by Jc's1LE

Why is it all the Mustang people are like well if it had the same tire set up this would be a different story??

[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Why stop there? Let's go absurdly oversquare (no stroke, all piston), throw in titanium rods, push the redline to 10K RPM (Nascar style), and we'll make 750+ HP all-motor out of 358 cubic inches. We'll be idling at 2K RPM, the motor won't make any power below 6K, and we'll be getting mid single-digit fuel mileage around town and low teens on the highway.

I mean, the rest of America, like you, cannot care about fuel mileage since we all have oil rigs in our backyards. No one rides with other people in the car so not being able to hold a simple conversation with a passenger is irrelevant to.

These are mass produced vehicles. You want "the best technology a manufacturer can provide" ... then pony up for the Zondas, Bugattis, and Koenigseggs of the world. You want to buy a car whose production numbers have 6 or more 0s after them, you deal with the fact that that manufacturer is going to have to build motors for the masses. For every Camaro enthusiast here on C5, there are 2000 Camaro owners who have no idea what a small-block is and bought that 2015 1LT RS because it looked sporty and they really liked the color

I love your posts.

They're such a breathe of fresh air amongst all the nonsense so many forums have become.

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by GONIF

I give up , if you thing a OHV engine is better than a DOCH or SOHC ,the rest of the auto industry must be wrong including MB, BMW ,Audi, Rolls Royce ,Bentley, Ferrari, Ford, Honda ,Toyota , Mazda, Porsche, Aston Martin, Jag ,Bugatti ect ect ect. No point in going on you will not convince me and I will not convince you . The future is OHC until electric powered cars kick every other type of powers ass . The M1 Garand was the best at one time too.

Yes. An OHV engine is clearly better at some things than an OHC engine. Yes, an OHC engine is clearly better at other things than a OHV engine. Your problem is you don't know enough about the total package each brings to the table.

Every single manufacturer in your list above (except for Ford, which switched to OHC simply because they couldn't keep up with Chevy engineers in the OHV space) started in markets where displacement brings tax. These markets were, and are still today, forced to find ways to make more power out of smaller displacements. OHC engines do offer significant higher-rpm breathing advantages ... and high RPMs are what is needed to make small engines perform better. But when you aren't saddled with absurd displacement taxes, you can do what 'Merica has done. Build fuel-efficient OHV motors that get their efficiency from the low-RPM motoring these engines are capable of. And of course with their size, comes power. And with their simpler design comes more compact packaging, lighter weight per liter, lower friction (which directly affects brake-specific fuel consumption, a true measure of how efficient a motor is), and greater reliability.

If OHV was truly a sub-par design, then the Corvette Racing program (and the Viper racing program, which has had a lot of success in the past 20 years), would have been complete flops.

The only people who continue to praise the benefits of "horsepower-per-liter" are Civic owners who need something to argue back with when their car runs a 16-second quarter .... oh, and you.