Is race gas ok

[erik13]

isn't race gas like 10 dollar bucks a gallon?

[Angrybird 12]

As long as the pump you get it out of does not say "For off road use only" it should not harm your car. But without mods on your car that increase compression it probably would be a waste of money.

[The_Blur]

There's no benefit on a stock motor.

[Baltimorejohn1]

One thing that stands out to me is the people that keep saying it doesn't work don't cite sources nor do they say they used it.......

Top Gear constantly teases our gasoline.....
Has anyone ever thought the response I'm getting is more because it is pure gasoline vs. the stuff used today in the US that has a lot added that didn't use to be in it.....
So when my car gets pure gasoline it just goes ummmmm yum yum......
I never said my car was doing something extra....
Maybe its running like it should have run if it had pure gasoline the entire time......
Gasoline isn't just gasoline anymore.....

Anyway here is an article from the EPA on what is actually in gas today:

EPA has several programs that establish standards for gasoline:

• The Tier 2 Gasoline Sulfur program reduced the sulfur content of gasoline by up to 90 percent from uncontrolled levels. Phased in from 2004-2007, and now in effect, the program allows refiners to produce gasoline with a range of sulfur levels as long as their annual corporate average does not exceed 30 parts per million (ppm). In addition, no individual batch can exceed 80 ppm.
• The Mobile Source Air Toxics (MSAT) rules reduce hazardous air pollutants, also known as air toxics, emitted by cars and trucks. Air toxics include benzene and other hydrocarbons such as 1,3-butadiene, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, and naphthalene.
• Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) was mandated for metropolitan areas with the worst smog beginning in 1995. RFG is blended to burn more cleanly than conventional gasoline, reducing emissions of smog-forming and toxic pollutants.
• EPA regulates the volatility/Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) of conventional gasoline sold at retail stations during the summer smog season (June 1-September 15) to reduce evaporative emissions that contribute to smog.
• Winter Oxygenated Fuel programs increase fuel oxygen and are mandated in certain areas for carbon monoxide control. The winter oxygenated fuel season is generally October through February or March.
• E15 is a fuel containing a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, specifically 15 volume % ethanol and 85 volume % gasoline. EPA, in response to a request by Growth Energy under section 211(f)(4) of the Clean Air Act, has granted a partial waiver to allow E15 to be introduced into commerce for use in model year 2001 and newer light-duty motor vehicles, subject to several conditions. Fuel and fuel additive manufacturers are required to register the E15 with EPA prior to beginning distribution of the fuel.

Read more: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/index.htm

[Cpanthers85]

My tuner offered a 100 octane tune for $50 more when I got my car dyno tuned. I asked if it would hurt the engine if I didn't buy the 100 octane fuel tune but still ran 100 octane and he said no, but I won't be getting the most HP out of the car if I don't have it tuned properly for the 100 octane. Was it a scam to upsell me? Maybe. Am I going to notice the difference? Probably not.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Baltimorejohn1

One thing that stands out to me is the people that keep saying it doesn't work don't cite sources nor do they say they used it.......

Not all supposedly identical engines are really identical. Nor are individuals equally sensitive to any changes, let alone be able to narrow down the reason to octane vs, say, ambient conditions.

That parts are interchangeable does not guarantee that they are precisely identical. Dimensional tolerances will affect compression ratio (slightly), surface finish has its effect, EGR volume will vary slightly, the state of tune including fuel trims almost certainly varies, etc., etc.

The point being that some engines may not benefit at all while others do. I don't think it's possible to state with complete confidence what the effect on all "identical" engines is either way on this. Never mind whether it's noticed or not.


FWIW, I'm sure that some engines under some driving conditions will benefit. Whether the actual benefit in subjective preference (or just in the hard numbers, for that matter) would be worth the extra expense is a completely separate matter that can never be resolved to everybody's satisfaction.


Norm

[Angrybird 12]

Placebo effect. You think it works therefore it does.....

[SC2150]

Daveagogo is correct on the different countries octaine ratings....we had a race team melt pistons over in europe using what they assumed was the correct octaine based uopn the US method, and the fuel provided had to be used in that class.

Baltimorejohn, I have no beef with you, but having built race and performance engines of all types for over 38 years, and our teams holding multiple Divisional, National, and World Championships in both NHRA & IHRA in several classes as well as years of racing (not test and tune, look us up in the NHRA statistics), owning, and running some of the winningest drag teams in the Eastern US I can tell you you are wrong. The engines we run cost between (depending on the class run) between $12k to over $50k and understanding octaine and the correct fuels needed for each and why has given us the edge and the reliability needed to continue to compete as we do.

That said, I have no horse in this race, just a lifetime of experiance where it counts most....Championship Drag Racing. No butt dynos or opinions, just real world knowledge.

[Baltimorejohn1]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Daveagogo is correct on the different countries octaine ratings....we had a race team melt pistons over in europe using what they assumed was the correct octaine based uopn the US method, and the fuel provided had to be used in that class.

Baltimorejohn, I have no beef with you, but having built race and performance engines of all types for over 38 years, and our teams holding multiple Divisional, National, and World Championships in both NHRA & IHRA in several classes as well as years of racing (not test and tune, look us up in the NHRA statistics), owning, and running some of the winningest drag teams in the Eastern US I can tell you you are wrong. The engines we run cost between (depending on the class run) between $12k to over $50k and understanding octaine and the correct fuels needed for each and why has given us the edge and the reliability needed to continue to compete as we do.

That said, I have no horse in this race, just a lifetime of experiance where it counts most....Championship Drag Racing. No butt dynos or opinions, just real world knowledge.

No beef here its all good I was just sharing my experience with the gas in question in this car that the OP asked about.....

I respect your background......
I grew up with my Step-father and family working for GM building vehicles......
And my dad a championship racer himself and president of a race track......
Use to help build cars in the weekend in the garage then watch the race......
Me I have been racing off and on from 5 years old on my Q50 at first and now I am just hanging out drinking beer and enjoying good cheer.....

I know my way around cars a bit even when I lived for 20 years in Carolina and visiting every summer all my life......
But mostly I love to DRIVE.....

I know anything you add if you tune it to the specifications of what you added it will perform at its optimum level so we have no argument

However, one can still see results before the tune as well......
Just saying gas from station to station and area to area is not all the same in the US or world for that matter.....

Many things are added to gas these days so its not pure gasoline....
And when my car has streetblaze in it I get better MPG and consistent pull throughout the power band......
To me it acts as I would have expected it to act from the beginning.....

If others haven't experienced that not saying they did or didn't......
Just shared my experience......

[axis]

Originally Posted by Baltimorejohn1

However, one can still see results before the tune as well......
Just saying gas from station to station and area to area is not all the same in the US or world for that matter.....

Many things are added to gas these days so its not pure gasoline....
And when my car has streetblaze in it I get better MPG and consistent pull throughout the power band......
To me it acts as I would have expected it to act from the beginning.....

If others haven't experienced that not saying they did or didn't......
Just shared my experience......

If you're not getting knock, the OEM tune is giving you everything GM allows you to have. Doesn't matter if you're running 87 to 96 oct, as long as you're not getting knock retard. There is no way for your car to tell if there's 87, 89, 91, 93, or 96 oct. What it can tell is how much knock you have and then gives you the calibration table based off that. It seems like you're implying that there's more in the tune if you add more octane. That's not the case, as everyone has pointed out. If you're getting a noticeable bump in performance, then the super unleaded you're getting is allowing your car to knock. That could be anything from only having 91 in your area, bad gas, winter blend, etc.

[Baltimorejohn1]

One of the family race cars from back in the day.....
The Killer CUda.....
Racing is in the blood.....
40 years of racing for me......

[SC2150]

In the old days (60's and 70's) we would go the the local airport and put av gas in (100 octaine if I remember) in our shved head GTO's etc. and it made a world of differance as we could advance the timing more. Also, if an engine has an excess of carbon buildup on the piston tops and combustion chamber that may raise the actula CR to the point a higher octaine would help.

We see the 3.6l LLT & LFX make more power and get slightly better MPG on 93 VS 87 as the owners manual says to use, but it is 11.3:1 CR so thats a no brainer.

Our V8's today are 10.7:1 so that is right on the edge for 91 with 93 being sufficiant, but the LS3/L99 has high and low octaine tables and once defaulted to the low octaine table the "fuse pull" is usually needed to reset to the high octaine table, but thinking about this (since the PCM measures the knock occurance to default to low table) running 100 may cause it to revert back to the high octaine table w/out the fuse pull.

That said, w/out closed chamber heads, or shaved, or domed pistions that would raise the CR well over 11:1, it would not be beneficial. Now add FI and the static CR raises with the amount of boost and the benefits would definately be there.

Thx for the civil reply Baltimore! Dont you wish you guys still had that cuda?

Our Methanol engines we build over 14.5:1 and the cam grinds are usually well into the mid-high .800 lift range with a ton of duration.

[awfarley]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

What an entertaining p!ssing match!

[Baltimorejohn1]

Originally Posted by SC2150

In the old days (60's and 70's) we would go the the local airport and put av gas in (100 octaine if I remember) in our shved head GTO's etc. and it made a world of differance as we could advance the timing more. Also, if an engine has an excess of carbon buildup on the piston tops and combustion chamber that may raise the actula CR to the point a higher octaine would help.

We see the 3.6l LLT & LFX make more power and get slightly better MPG on 93 VS 87 as the owners manual says to use, but it is 11.3:1 CR so thats a no brainer.

Our V8's today are 10.7:1 so that is right on the edge for 91 with 93 being sufficiant, but the LS3/L99 has high and low octaine tables and once defaulted to the low octaine table the "fuse pull" is usually needed to reset to the high octaine table, but thinking about this (since the PCM measures the knock occurance to default to low table) running 100 may cause it to revert back to the high octaine table w/out the fuse pull.

That said, w/out closed chamber heads, or shaved, or domed pistions that would raise the CR well over 11:1, it would not be beneficial. Now add FI and the static CR raises with the amount of boost and the benefits would definately be there.

Thx for the civil reply Baltimore! Dont you wish you guys still had that cuda?

Our Methanol engines we build over 14.5:1 and the cam grinds are usually well into the mid-high .800 lift range with a ton of duration.

Yes I miss that Cuda but I really miss the Firebird with blower because that was mine ..........
I enjoyed the civil discussion with you as well.....