What did I do wrong?

[MBS]

Ok my pride is hurt and this is driving me crazy and broke ,,time to man up and learn by my mistakes,,, This last weekend I did a complete brake job .I installed Baer Drilled and slotted rotors , EBC yellow stuff brake pads , Goodrich Stainless steel brake lines and switched to Mogel dot 4 brake fluid and painted my calipers , I have done about 50 brake jobs in my life.

Here is how I did this ----Day 1
1-- Took off tires and set up all 4 stands.
2-- Cleaned & Opened master cylinder lid and placed a paper towel over it
3-- Removed Calipers and brake shoes ,
4-- Removed OEM brake lines and allowed fluid to drain.
5--Cleaned and painted calipers and pads (they were yellow painted them red also I masked off with painters tape the piston ,both brake line holes, and anywhere a bolt or washer is .
6-- went to bed .end of 1st day
Day 2
7--Installed Stainless brake lines, made sure the brass rings where on nice and tight , At this point my torque wrench was broken so i just cranked them on real nice and tight where it meet the caliper.
8-- Installed rear piece of caliper Cranked on the 18mm bolts hard
9-- Discovered that my shoes would not fit properly because of the paint on them where they slide in , I then proceeded to sand down to the bare metal anywhere the pad was touching the caliper pad holders took some time but got them on.
10--re lubed Caliper pins and installed after help from 2 members from this site (thank you both again)on which pin was which on the fronts ,I installed the one with the bushing on the bottom and the gold solid pin on the top , as far as i know the one with the bushing just slips back in the hole and does it thing? Hope I am right?
11- Installed the front calipers and bolted them 14mm on very tight but not quite as hard as the rear caliper 18mm bolts
12-- re-installed the brake line bleeders.
end of day 2..
13-- Got my pressure bleeders out it runs off my air compressor and set the gauge at 110 pounds The directions said 90-120 lbs. started at right rear then left rear then passenger front then drivers front , Lots of air in the right rear then it slowly got less air , at that point I did not like how much fluid was coming through so I got the wife and did it the old fashion way , I would open the valve she would push down once and wait for me to close the valve , Full fluid was coming out with no air ,, But the peddle was going down way too much , So I did it again , It got a little better , So i drove it and discovered that my right rear where I hooked into the factory lines that runs along the back had a leak in the fitting , So I tightn it up more and it leaked no more , I then preceded to bleed the lines again , Felt a bit better and has enough stopping power at slower speeds but no way was good enough at highway speeds ,
So I give up and take it to the dealer , I have always had good luck with these guys and have been treated very good by them. , Their Tech ( who looked to be about 25-28 years old) bleed the lines again and again , with no luck , So they call me and say they are not sure what is wrong but the best bet was to start with putting the factory rubber brake lines back on So I thought well strange but at this point I will let them try it 2 hours later they call back and say "well that did not work and they think the master is bad and I need a new one at a cost of $300 just for the part ? Why would the Master be bad if it had air in it cant they just bleed it out?

What the heck happened? Anyone ? I would greatly appreciate anyones knowledge/experience on this .

[SSMickey]

Sounds like you ran the ABS module dry. How did the tech bleed the brakes? There going to have to hook up the scan tool and run the ABS module to get the air out. You can bleed the brakes the old school way unless you get air in the ABS, then it's time to break out the technology.

[PalmerGA]

I'm not brake expert, but it sure sounds like you have some sort of pressure leak somewhere. Though I would think if you did either you or you dealer mechanic would have seen it. If you were not having brake issues before you did the brake job, the master cylinder shouldn't suddenly go bad.

Someone on here will have helpful input for you.

^^^ See there? ^^^ SSMickey may have nailed it. Brake systems are pretty complex these days, compared to the last time I did a brake job (drum brakes, simple MS, etc.). Technology is a wonderful thing but it will sure make us "old school" guys scratch our heads a lot.

[AmericanMuscleCars]

Crap... Have you seen it in person. Shops always try ang get one over on you. Idk on this one, check it yourself is my guess.

[MBS]

Originally Posted by SSMickey

Sounds like you ran the ABS module dry. How did the tech bleed the brakes? There going to have to hook up the scan tool and run the ABS module to get the air out. You can bleed the brakes the old school way unless you get air in the ABS, then it's time to break out the technology.

Yes the brakes were fine before I started , I am not sure how they bleed it at the dealership , I fiqured they would know what to do , But after seeing this young man of about 25 years old my guard is up now?I just dont want to buy a new master if it doesnt need it ? I will keep you informed of what happens Thanks

[MBS]

Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleCars

Crap... Have you seen it in person. Shops always try ang get one over on you. Idk on this one, check it yourself is my guess.

I wouldnt know if it was bad or good if I did look at it to tell you the truth ?

[SSMickey]

If your pedal is spongy feeling, there is air in the system. If you press the pedal, and it feels firm but slowly sinks to the floor, you have a leak somewhere or your master cylinder is bypassing. It still sounds like you have air in there somewhere.

[KJS]

Originally Posted by SSMickey

Sounds like you ran the ABS module dry. How did the tech bleed the brakes? There going to have to hook up the scan tool and run the ABS module to get the air out. You can bleed the brakes the old school way unless you get air in the ABS, then it's time to break out the technology.

This is what I was thinking also. Not an expert, but I've heard the ABS cannot be run dry. Otherwise you need to find out how to make sure its done right, not just bleeding the system the "old fashioned way".

[jeremywes]

Bench bleed your master cylinder. Lots of good instructions on the internet and it's pretty easy to do. Good luck and post back once you get it resolved

[MBS]

The mechanic said he tried to bleed the Master , and he thinks the seals are bad??? IDK what to think . Thanks for all that helped and if anyone else has had this problem I would love to hear about it ,and how they fixed it .

[SSMickey]

Originally Posted by MBS

The mechanic said he tried to bleed the Master , and he thinks the seals are bad??? IDK what to think . Thanks for all that helped and if anyone else has had this problem I would love to hear about it ,and how they fixed it .

Possible, but I say not likely at this point.

1. How did the tech bleed your system, did he use a scan tool to activate the ABS module?
2. How does or did the brake pedal feel? Is it firm but sinking, or does it feel like a wet sponge?

[MBS]

I asked the service manager and he said he was going to ask him? Is this what you would recommend ? ,
Also the peddle just sinks real fast then has some brake right at the bottom of the peddle . When I bleed it out the 3rd time not a single bubble , came out of the lines , , I have a question for you , When I was changing the lines should I of capped the main lines off so all the fluid did not drain out ? Is this how air got into my Master?

[bw26ss]

I have heard, never experienced, that on rare occasion when the brakes pedal travel is further than normal operation, that this can tear the seals in the master, because there is crap build up in there where the piston wouldn't normally travel, hope that made sense

[Synner]

You should never have let the lines drain. You probably took fluid out of the cylinder and ABS unit so you'll need a full tech II bleed. The dealer doesn't know what he's talking about if he says a seal went bad in the master.

If you want to do a full fluid swap on these bleed them normally. Going dry jacks up the ABS module. Its not like the old days where its just lines going to the MC and thats it.