ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Off topic response:



I owned (rented) a M6 N54 335i Sport and I am impressed. With a $200 tuning chip it would have outrun my stock LS3 SS at the drags and at the track, had 4 doors (very convenient) and got over 30 MPG on the highway (If you stayed out of the turbos.) and had great sport seats. The build quality was much higher than the SS. Sure it listed $4K higher than the Chevy, but it is one of the most versatile cars ever made. I wish I could have afforded to keep it as my daily driver and made my SS a more extreme summer weekend car.

I feel no emotion when thinking about, looking at or even driving a BMW...sorry

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Gramps69Z

Seems like I'm lurking more and more for good news.

Mmmmmmmm, beer and popcorn. I like white cheddar popcorn, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[JusticePete]

If the Camaro TEAM can sell enough LS7 Z/28s to overwhelm LS7 production capacity I think they would go beyond a celebration and find a way to build more.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Mmmmmmmm, beer and popcorn. I like white cheddar popcorn, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I hate that white cheddar stuff they have at the movies. My brother always puts that junk on so I have to go get my own.

[OldScoolCamaro]

I'll be the first in line to trade in or sell my ZL1 for a LS7 factory tweeked Pedders enhanced Z28 as discussed on the Z28 board, in 2014 but of course....please..

Make no mistake, the ZL1 is outright phenominal, across so many categories, that it will not be surpased in my lifetime I imagine for all that it can do. But I'm still moderately sane enough to want a less is more ride that's more singulary focused to the HP and performance side and forgo some luxury. I'm a torquey, twisting, seat of the pants screaming small block close ratio guy who likes to stand on it and hear the symphoney while shifting up and down the scale. MR has me spoiled though....it's miraculous.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

I'll be the first in line to trade in or sell my ZL1 for a LS7 factory tweeked Pedders enhanced Z28 as discussed on the Z28 board, in 2014 but of course....please..

Make no mistake, the ZL1 is outright phenominal, across so many categories, that it will not be surpased in my lifetime I imagine for all that it can do. But I'm still moderately sane enough to want a less is more ride that's more singulary focused to the HP and performance side and forgo some luxury. I'm a torquey, twisting, seat of the pants screaming small block close ratio guy who likes to stand on it and hear the symphoney while shifting up and down the scale. MR has me spoiled though....it's miraculous.

Have you been reading my old journal pages again?? If you haven't, it sure sounds like it cause we seem to think a lot alike!!
Clyde

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

Have you been reading my old journal pages again?? If you haven't, it sure sounds like it cause we seem to think a lot alike!!
Clyde

LOL Clyde, indeed. I guess we could fondly consider ourselves throwbacks to some degree....or any other phrase that you may like ...but 6 OG's with a similar vision can't be all wrong.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by KarFan

There is no reason to debate development costs of putting a different engine in the Camaro any further. You either understand that the days of just swapping out engines like some kind of COPO special are over and that GM is an OEM manufacturer and all vehicles they produce must meet high standards and stand behind a warranty. Don't confuse development costs of the LS7 or the Camaro independently. It means that they must be certified, packaged, durability tested and crash tested… etc. together. The costs and engineering time are probably not high in relation to what was spent on the ZL1 program but again another hurdle against the business case the car needs would need to make. Money and time was spent to bring the 1LE package to the Camaro and that was without a engine change.

You can call them excuses but this is the reality facing a car like has been proposed here. Nobody at GM wanted a 3750-4100 lb Camaro but that became reality for it return and to be competitive in the marketplace.

There is a HUGE difference between the size of the Camaro with the GRWD and dropping in an LS7. If emissions are not the issue, then there is no excuse not to build the LS7 Z/28 without validation. Increase the base price of all Camaro's by $100 to fund the warranty unknown. If that isn't enough add a couple of thousand to the LS7 Z/28 price. If GM really needs help in figuring out how to cover warranty on a limited production vehicle I have scratch paper and pencils ready in my conference room.

What it takes is an executive willing to go out on a limb and approve the project. That is how the GTO was born. Zora took the ordinary early Vette and transformed it into an icon and didn't follow the GM rule book. This is what it takes to build a LS7 Z/28.



No 'guts'. No glory.

[KarFan]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

There is a HUGE difference between the size of the Camaro with the GRWD and dropping in an LS7. If emissions are not the issue, then there is no excuse not to build the LS7 Z/28 without validation. Increase the base price of all Camaro's by $100 to fund the warranty unknown. If that isn't enough add a couple of thousand to the LS7 Z/28 price. If GM really needs help in figuring out how to cover warranty on a limited production vehicle I have scratch paper and pencils ready in my conference room.

What it takes is an executive willing to go out on a limb and approve the project. That is how the GTO was born. Zora took the ordinary early Vette and transformed it into an icon and didn't follow the GM rule book. This is what it takes to build a LS7 Z/28.



No 'guts'. No glory.

If I had to single out the likely highest hurdle facing a LS7 powered Camaro it would be that when all said and done the MSRP would be a lot closer to the ZL1 price point than the consumer market or the bean counters would like.

This brings the idea of decontenting a more premium priced and very strong brand like Z28. This would be averse the buying trends for the 5th Gen Camaro in the marketplace since it was introduced.

But one thing that shouldn't be questioned regardless of what route GM takes with the Camaro is the strong desire inside GM for what's truly best for the car, the company and the loyal consumers and enthusiasts.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by KarFan

If I had to single out the likely highest hurdle facing a LS7 powered Camaro it would be that when all said and done the MSRP would be a lot closer to the ZL1 price point than the consumer market or the bean counters would like.

This brings the idea of decontenting a more premium priced and very strong brand like Z28. This would be averse the buying trends for the 5th Gen Camaro in the marketplace since it was introduced.

But one thing that shouldn't be questioned regardless of what route GM takes with the Camaro is the strong desire inside GM for what's truly best for the car, the company and the loyal consumers and enthusiasts.

Cool. Don't let the sticker dissuade you from building the LS7 Z/28.

Instant Z/28 Formula

LS7 with 1LE equipment plus ZL1 brakes and rear end.

There will be a smaller line than if the price point were mid 40's, but there will be a line. If Hendricks will allow it I'll buy the first one you build in a Chevy Heartbeat. If I can't get #1 I'll take #7

[Mikes SS]

There is a HUGE difference between the size of the Camaro with the GRWD and dropping in an LS7. If emissions are not the issue, then there is no excuse not to build the LS7 Z/28 without validation. Increase the base price of all Camaro's by $100 to fund the warranty unknown. If that isn't enough add a couple of thousand to the LS7 Z/28 price. If GM really needs help in figuring out how to cover warranty on a limited production vehicle I have scratch paper and pencils ready in my conference room.

Oh I am sure that they would add more than a couple thousand to the price. I am with you all the way Karfan..if I wanted a ZL1 as far as price goes, I would just buy one and slap a damn Z/28 badge on it. GM is aware of the price already and I am betting this is the reason they haven't done it already.

[Bhobbs]

I think the biggest hurdle to the Z/28 is the time and money spent on the ZL1. The ZL1 and the 1LE are the only performance upgrades made to the Camaro since its release.

[LOWDOWN]

First of all, a ZL1 as offered is the equivalent of a 2SS+ with regard to interior trimming and vehicle content...NOT a 1SS. The ZL1 has a specific-to-it Leather interior, upgraded sound as well as comfort and convenience features that a 1SS-based ZEE would NOT need to bloat its Base Price or Curb Weight.

Bring it in under $50K at a 1SS-1LE level of features with ZL1 brakes/tires/aero/HD driveline and a RamAir/extractor hood and grippy cloth seats...and stand back from the doors! Black Thursday would have nothing on what might happen at Chevy Stores, nationwide!

For those seeking a ZL1-like "experience" equipment-wise, packaged options would be welcomed by the "bottom liners" and the less hardcore buyers...MRC, thumpin' sounds, Leather, lights-camera-ACTION!

Second of all, I recall GMPP's crate prices for LS7 and LSA engines as being slightly in favor of the LS7. Co$t$, however, are for the beancounters to decipher. No doubt, with LSA now being utilized in two higher-volume Models than the Z06/LS7, the LSA's unit costs have come down...

Third, no one has confirmed/denied Wixom's future utilization beyond C6 Vette. That facility has built as many as 10,000 units/yr., and has fallen to well less than 5,0000...a number that a properly-priced ZEE would EQUAL to ensure continued Wixom health...

Fourth, and only barely mentioned by folks in the loop, is there a desire to see a Vette version of the Gen-5 LT1 shoehorned into a Gen-5 Camaro as a "Final Edition"? It should avoid the dreaded GG Tax as well. At least 475 hp would do...thank you!

If a Gen-5 Camaro with a Gen-5 LT1 has folks (and critics) excited, just imagine their glee when the Gen-6 Camaro bows MINUS 300+ LB. WITH A SIMILAR ENGINE!!!!!
That "comparison" would easily show the gains made by re-engineering the Gen-6 Camaro, ensuring strong continued sales. And PERFORMANCE fully worthy of an iconic name...

Fifth (and finally!), do not underestimate the Dearborn Dandies and their intentions for their next-Gen Stang. Imagine a lighter-than-current BOSS-like iteration with a 500+ hp naturally aspirated engine capable of outhandling a ZL1 while running with the '13 500...

But, heck, that's still "sometime down the road" too...

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I think the biggest hurdle to the Z/28 is the time and money spent on the ZL1. The ZL1 and the 1LE are the only performance upgrades made to the Camaro since its release.

Actually that's anything, but a hurdle, why? They already spent the $$$$$$$ for development for many of the things to be used in the Z28. Bringing in a Z28 now would spread development cost, which is a manufacturers dream. The Z28 as we've concluded would use parts already having been developed. They're just waiting to be assembled into "our" car.

Oh and they did reengineer the rear suspension to some degree