Tuner will VOID warranty

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Russell James

I don't see that. The questions were asked and directly answered.

We landed on RJT is a cool color, let's leave it at that.

[brtaus]

[JR-Vette]

Originally Posted by storm83

Wow this is a long thread, I read like half of it... If GM is this concerned in what a tune can do to the car (thus voiding warranty) why don't they supply a performance tune through GMPP? I don't care about the tune itself I just want to get rid of the stupid AFM, but not if it voids my warranty. So I am left with a car that I could have liked soooooo much more, which you might think would have been better for GM

Because :

1. By federal law only the nameplate can make changes that would effect EPA output and compliance to I/M tests

2. Without the PCM the engine is useless and the nameplate MUST have other federal testing done to certify the design. Once passed any PCM changes would require a lot of money to retest and different EPA NO #

3. Lots of factors make a tune good or bad, big difference in what a tune needs for sealevel to living at 6,000 feet. Same for hot weather areas to cold, same for humid areas.
Add every state or country has different requirements as to gas makeup and then add each drivers style

4. GM as other nameplates release a car to run at no more then let's say 80% of the design's ability. Add 5 year / 100000 mile powertrain warranty and they are not going to look at all the above and allow several calibrations and have to support them all.

5. ALL GM performance parts clearly says it not part of stock car and it's original warranty and may be deemed "off road only"

6. Consider the zoo we see daily, you mod the car, make tuning changes.
You want to dump car, may take mods off but not the tune or take tune out but not the mods. In the end the user car buyer is totally blind as what he bought and has a screwed up car or worse cannot pass smog to get license tags.
Meaning just how many different tunes could they support with quality, assure it meets EPA and who knows what tune is in what car.

7. Do not forget the insurance and their lobbies, safety and theft functions force nameplates, example column or shift locks, yet some want those turned off but GM would have insurance vendors on their ass

[JR-Vette]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

My point is that JR-Vette (custom tuner guy) is all over the place with his point(s)--- He says anything and everything to discredit most other tuning options, but he fails to include himself in the criticism.

Do not try and play that game for it is clear your thinking even though you have zero experience in tuning, repairing damage that mods do and want to protect vendors who want to HIDE what they did solely to screw GM over in bogus warranty claims.

My content several times made it clear what my feeling is and that is as a custom tuner for over 15 years and it is real simple

STFU, man up and if wanting mods which them REQUIRE PCM tuned, you bought it, no warranty, no returns.

What your problem is you want to hump the messenger but as having tuned thousands of cars/trucks in 15 years I have heard all the BS like you post but the facts is people who have zero experience believe the hype UNTIL they get wacked.
Why should I include myself ? - I never have or would con customers that tuning would preserve warranty and that is what this thread is about, not tuning itself.

As they say BS and marketing walks, but conning dealers for warranty is horseshit that causes GM to takes those costs and raise the sticker price to all new car owners.

[caperss]

After being totally disgusted with how my L99 ran I went the Vector Motorsports way. The car runs the way it is suppose to. It runs PERFECT and shifts PERFECT too. I'm not one to give praise out easily but give vredit where it is due. THANK YOU VECTOR MOTORSPORTS! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

[JR-Vette]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

please see below...

Right?

Now people are making up procedures that do not even exist?

Thats why I feel this is getting totally out of hand.

People are reading into things that are not even there...

I have outlined, more than once, how we verify the CVNs are not changed, and anyone with an MDI has the same exact capabilities..

All GM asks for is a screenshot of the CVN page, thats it.

CVNs have zero to do with making changes to the calibration space, none

For those not having the experience
Consider your laptop, it has a OS like MS windows, call that V41, has a serial number and for short call it SEGMENT 1

Now your laptop has other programs and drivers running call them segments 2 to 6

Each one has its own task and no others.
Here is the segments of a STOCK 2010 ZR1 Corvette below

Even though it is tuned, makes no difference how many times the CVN NEVER changes as the tune is NOT touching them as they are software where the tune is let's call it a storage of pointers and values the ENGINE segment looks to at set memory offset address.

Any vendor trying to market you as hiding the tune is smoking Obama weed
as the tune ITSELF would not touch any software code segments thus the Calibration Verification Number (CVN) would not change if tuned once or even 100 times.

Notice to the right of ID what the segment's software handles.


What does change is if a PCM is mailed to some tuner and he takes another PCM, changes the VIN # with a canned tune and you end up with segments that are all or in part older or newer then what you have.
GM then would know by the CVN that something stinks.

Or you ask the tuner if there is any newer segments to also update yours
Now some or all CVNs no longer is what GM database shows for your PCM and knows it has been hacked but this has zero to do with tuning the calibration space where engine function values are changed

An example would be the knock test function is too tight, tends to fail that test so GM goes into segment 5 makes changes, now the CVN # would change and if your dealer does that update to PCM your records to GM now show all other CVNs the same except for segment 5

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by JR-Vette

Do not try and play that game for it is clear your thinking even though you have zero experience in tuning, repairing damage that mods do and want to protect vendors who want to HIDE what they did solely to screw GM over in bogus warranty claims.

My content several times made it clear what my feeling is and that is as a custom tuner for over 15 years and it is real simple

STFU, man up and if wanting mods which them REQUIRE PCM tuned, you bought it, no warranty, no returns.

What your problem is you want to hump the messenger but as having tuned thousands of cars/trucks in 15 years I have heard all the BS like you post but the facts is people who have zero experience believe the hype UNTIL they get wacked.
Why should I include myself ? - I never have or would con customers that tuning would preserve warranty and that is what this thread is about, not tuning itself.

As they say BS and marketing walks, but conning dealers for warranty is horseshit that causes GM to takes those costs and raise the sticker price to all new car owners.

So much anger.. lol

[jrc1122]

I never said I wanted to CON the dealer, no more than they would (hypothetically try to CON me)

You see they hide behind a billion dollar company with high priced lawyers and various other legal members on the behest. I am just some shmoe who bought a 300 dollar hand held tuner to get a tiny fraction better performance out of my car....

Who is to say that they wouldn't void my warranty even though tune didn't cause it.. You seem to think it only goes one way.

You keep doing what you do... I will keep doing what I do.. I am advised by superchips to flash my car back to stock before taking my car in for service. So I do.
They advise me to do this because if I don't and they happen to have an updated Technical bulletin telling them car is due for an updated tune.. They may do it without ever consulting me first.. This will erase my tune. Thus making my tuner locked, which will cost me 100 bucks to unlock.

PS-- There as already been a TB out for my cars Transmission Tune. .SO this could have easily happened.


I go back to the SIMPLE analogy--- When/If you get pulled over by a cop, for a tail light being out... Are you going to start fessing up to speeding 10 minutes before he pulled you over.. NO YOU ARE NOT...

I am not going to tell GM that I have a handheld tuner for no good reason. Why because then they hold all that high priced lawyer power, and can make it very difficult for someone to get warranty work done on the power train even though they may NEVER prove it has done anything harmful to the car.

So IF.. they some how look at some print screens, and can tell my car has been tuned 4 or 5 times in the past and GMs records don't reflect that... Then I will cross that bridge when I get there.. But I am not going to willing screw myself, when I know that admitting to it, Could easily cause me to lose a warranty that otherwise would have never been lost. Because the Tune probably never had any significant impact on the power train.

Are you telling me that GM built my car to its 100% Optimal and Maxium level .... at the very brim of perfection,, and even a few more HP will just start degrade the life of the engine... I don't buy that for one minute.. I'm not pushing an extra 150- 200 ponies out of this 6.0.. I am pushing maybe 25-30 RWHP tops. (not even a 10 percent increase.


You wanna bore and stroke, and cam, and spray , and blow your engine that is one thing,, My CAI/ Tune/Catback isn't hurting anything..

You won't change my mind.

[1fastdog]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Are you telling me that GM built my car to its 100% Optimal and Maxium level .... at the very brim of perfection,, and even a few more HP will just start degrade the life of the engine... I don't buy that for one minute.. I'm not pushing an extra 150- 200 ponies out of this 6.0.. I am pushing maybe 25-30 RWHP tops. (not even a 10 percent increase.


You wanna bore and stroke, and cam, and spray , and blow your engine that is one thing,, My CAI/ Tune/Catback isn't hurting anything..

You won't change my mind.

I wouldn't presume to try and change your mind.

You don't believe your hard part mods or your tune have any effect on longevity. That's your opinion and not an actual verified fact.

I don't know the facts about any effects of your mods might have. I haven't validated them with hundreds of thousands of test miles.

My hope is that you wouldn't have any issues whatsoever. It's in my best interest that you enjoy your GM product. That's on a personal and business level. I also don't like to see folks spend money they don't really want to spend.

I'm pretty confident that power gains help sell tuning or tuning devices. I'm also confident that the tune or device that can provide the most gains are often the most desirable as any downside is rarely, if ever, discussed between tuner and owner. I have noticed that many aftermarket warranties state clearly what they will consider as something they will and won't be on the financial hook for. There will be differing opinion on what conclusion to draw from that.

What can and does happen, more than you believe, is folks get failsafes and abuse mitigators removed from their vehicles in the quest of more fun. More often than not, they are not aware that that is the case.

Some folks have tunes that will destroy the catalytic converters. It happens. Some aftermarket intakes do cause drivability issues, some air filters flow lots of air and don't filter particulate matter sufficiently to stop crap from getting into the motor and compromise the lifespan. Some trannie tunes will shorten a transmission's longevity.

The addition of a diagnostic procedure is in response to incidents and factual situations, not capricious whimsy or without knowledge that it can make some customersfeel at odds with the manufacturer.

Buyers will do what they are going to do.

I am aware of that fact.

I can not with any certainty tell anyone that if they buy an aftermarket product or service "XY or Z" that everything will work out exactly as they hope and there's no way possible it can be discovered...

I think folks are agreed that the discovery of a tune could have an effect on who picks up the tab for a failed part.

[Camarorss350]

this thread = wow lol

[v6sonoma]

WOW! LOL! I started reading this thread at around 8pm last night. I fell asleep at around 5am woke up around 10am picked up where I left off. It's now 2:50pm the next day.

I think it all comes down to this.

1. A tune IF detected WILL void the POWERTRAIN warranty.

2. Modifying the PCM and/or TCM voids the warranty regardless of weather or not it caused any damage.

3. A PREVIOUS tune may or may not be detectable by GM. A dealer might not see it was there but GM upon seeing possible evidence of modification might choose to dig deeper than a simple screen shot.

4. Tuners could know what they are doing or they could be idiots. I would like to say box tuners like Predator and Hypertech probably know what they are doing at this point. If they didn't they wouldn't still be in business. Also tuners like Jennetty have been around enough to know what they are doing. Buyer beware and do your research!

5. That being said NO ONE will cover your @$$ in the event of a failure. They all make it clear up front. That doesn't mean anything will go wrong. Just remember when it comes time to point fingers for every one you point at you'll have three pointing right back at you.

6. Some tuners say that if you revert to the stock settings it can't be detected that their tune was ever there. While it may be possible it's unknown until someone finds out the hard way. Do you want to be that person?

7.On a side note is the ethics. It is clearly unethical to try and get GM to repair an engine when you know you intentionally voided it's warranty for more performance and it breaks. It's all about personal responsibility. I don't care how you feel. If you tune it you break your contract with GM and they should not have to honor it. If you don't like that DON'T TUNE IT! It doesn't matter if the tune caused the damage or not. You altered it (the PCM,TCM) so you are responsible.

People want to see proof that you can screw GM (or any other company) and get away with it. That is what this thread has become. And that pisses me off! In my career as a retail manager I have had many people try and screw the companies I have worked for damage that they caused by misuse or negligence. I'll be honest at this point I can tell if someone is full of $hit within less than a minute. If someone is honest I will do everything I can to help them. If they are full of I will do anything and everything in my power to deny them. I feel bad that someone made a mistake and is out several hundred dollars or even thousands. I do. And I will try my best to make it better, but when they screw up they need to own up. We all know if you tune you have no warranty (powertrain) anymore. The real question people have is "Can I fraudulently claim warranty work against GM and get away with it?" Come on mods this thread needs to be closed. It's run it's course and we whittled it down to the real question.

Tuning it is fine. Tuners and tuning device manufacturers are good hard working people. So are the employees of GM. Enjoy your cars and be honorable. Thats all I'm saying.

[jrc1122]

I'm under no legal obligation to inform GM how to do their job, if my engine blows, and they decide to replace it under warranty.. I am not required to say--- Oh by the way-- I've tuned the car before...


Last time I got pulled over by the police, I didn't voluntarily tell them to charge me with something they didn't witness.

"Sir I know you pulled me over for a rolling stop.. But I just did a Major burnout yesterday on a public road... Can you please ticket me for that as well.."

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

WOW! LOL! I started reading this thread at around 8pm last night. I fell asleep at around 5am woke up around 10am picked up where I left off. It's now 2:50pm the next day.

I think it all comes down to this.

1. A tune IF detected WILL void the POWERTRAIN warranty.

2. Modifying the PCM and/or TCM voids the warranty regardless of weather or not it caused any damage.

3. A PREVIOUS tune may or may not be detectable by GM. A dealer might not see it was there but GM upon seeing possible evidence of modification might choose to dig deeper than a simple screen shot.

4. Tuners could know what they are doing or they could be idiots. I would like to say box tuners like Predator and Hypertech probably know what they are doing at this point. If they didn't they wouldn't still be in business. Also tuners like Jennetty have been around enough to know what they are doing. Buyer beware and do your research!

5. That being said NO ONE will cover your @$$ in the event of a failure. They all make it clear up front. That doesn't mean anything will go wrong. Just remember when it comes time to point fingers for every one you point at you'll have three pointing right back at you.

6. Some tuners say that if you revert to the stock settings it can't be detected that their tune was ever there. While it may be possible it's unknown until someone finds out the hard way. Do you want to be that person?

7.On a side note is the ethics. It is clearly unethical to try and get GM to repair an engine when you know you intentionally voided it's warranty for more performance and it breaks. It's all about personal responsibility. I don't care how you feel. If you tune it you break your contract with GM and they should not have to honor it. If you don't like that DON'T TUNE IT! It doesn't matter if the tune caused the damage or not. You altered it (the PCM,TCM) so you are responsible.

People want to see proof that you can screw GM (or any other company) and get away with it. That is what this thread has become. And that pisses me off! In my career as a retail manager I have had many people try and screw the companies I have worked for damage that they caused by misuse or negligence. I'll be honest at this point I can tell if someone is full of $hit within less than a minute. If someone is honest I will do everything I can to help them. If they are full of I will do anything and everything in my power to deny them. I feel bad that someone made a mistake and is out several hundred dollars or even thousands. I do. And I will try my best to make it better, but when they screw up they need to own up. We all know if you tune you have no warranty (powertrain) anymore. The real question people have is "Can I fraudulently claim warranty work against GM and get away with it?" Come on mods this thread needs to be closed. It's run it's course and we whittled it down to the real question.

Tuning it is fine. Tuners and tuning device manufacturers are good hard working people. So are the employees of GM. Enjoy your cars and be honorable. Thats all I'm saying.

Very well put.

[tom692010]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

Very well put.

I do agree but like I mentioned before some place else. If GM were a little less restrictive in thier warrenty maybe people wouldn't feel the need to try and get over. You losses the whole powertrain warrenty if you do a modifcation,come on! I don't think that either side is being reasonable.
Just my opinion.