MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[TainoWarrior316]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

yup....


.......can someone please hand me a tissue -- I feel so bad for Toyota......

OUCH!

[TainoWarrior316]

Once in debt always in debt unless you file bankruptcy and that not going to happen with GM so they will have to slowly pull themselves out dont expect them to over the weekend be in great shape. This will NOT effect the Camaro because the Camaro is there ACE up their sleeve and should really give them the moral and financial boost they need to climb back onto the thrown. God Bless GM and I wish them the best.

[RallyFever]

fbodfather: any chance of GM pushing up production on the Camaro to generate some guaranteed revenue????

[Txturbo]

This Oshawa temporary layoff doesn't seem that bad. I read that it won't take effect until Jan. 2009. Camaro production begins in Feb. Seems like you could just move the extra people from the Impala line over to the Canmaro line.

[super60]

Txturbo

Just to clear the air here , the Camaro line already has their workers in place as they are just starting to filter back from their one year layoff. They will be assigned their line jobs and begin the ramp up work. The Impala workers will be laid off in early Jan on a temp basis and be recalled when things start to pick up. They will collect 65% pay EI/SUB . Support GM and GO TEAM CAMARO..

[Maddog78]

Originally Posted by D1BADZ

Well our camaros are being built and we are paying sticker for the most part so, thats good, I just got a dealer ad in my inbox for 38,500 for a 1lt vette, there dropping prices on these like no other

Damn, that's sick.

They are $65000 here in Canada but they now have a $6500 rebate.
Admittedly I haven't talked to a dealer about one lately, maybe they are offering much better deals but I doubt if they are anywhere close to the deal you got offered.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

GM made it very clear -- ONCE AGAIN - that bankruptcy is not something we want to contemplate..........

It would be very easy to go chapter 11 -- and pass all of our legacy costs on to the U.S. Taxpayer.......but it isn't the RIGHT thing to do...........

So -- please - no more talk about 'Bailouts' - -let's calm down - panic serves no one other than foreign manufacturers.

Scott, I'd like to draw your attention to this paragraph from Yahoo.com (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/081107/clf042.html?.v=101)

Even if GM implements the planned operating actions that are substantially within its control, GM's estimated liquidity during the remainder of 2008 will approach the minimum amount necessary to operate its business. Looking into the first two quarters of 2009, even with its planned actions, the company's estimated liquidity will fall significantly short of that amount unless economic and automotive industry conditions significantly improve, it receives substantial proceeds from asset sales, takes more aggressive working capital initiatives, gains access to capital markets and other private sources of funding, receives government funding under one or more current or future programs, or some combination of the foregoing.

What this says, is that at the current pace liquid assets will basically fall to the mimimum level needed to keep the lights on and the water running by early next year. If the govt. does not provide the loan GM asks for, what do you do?

I ask you now, what would have cost GM more in the last few years? Eliminating more divisions (Buick, Pontiac, Saab, GMC) and facing the bombardment of lawsuits by dealers, or a complete meltdown of the entire company? GM is surely in no better shape today keeping with what I now consider frivolous nameplates (Chevy and Cadillac are the only nameplates GM needs right now, and I know this is a bold statement to make to you but with all due respect I can argue why there hasn't been a need for anything but Caddy and Chevy for the last 5 years) than they would have been had they eliminated them, and dealt with the aftershock accordingly.

This is all, of course, assuming banckruptcy is off the table, as you, Rick Wagoner, and every one else is steadfast on.

I totally agree that chapt. 11 should remain an abolute last ditch effort. The stigma of buying a car from a bankrupt company will not go over well with the general public.

However, the flip side of chapt. 11 is that you can restructure the company almost without recourse from dealers. You can toss all the UAW contracts out the window. Axe the divisions and models that don't sell or sell without profit, and do so rather quickly.

And when the proceedings are over, GM could emerge as a smaller but leaner, meaner company that can generate profits and move forward.

It is unfortunate but true: GM is just too big for it's own good.

[BeermanSS]

they definitely need to trim the fat. what the hell is the point of the g6, malibu, aura, and lacrosse. Should be Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, GMC for commercial trucks.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 99b4c

It never made sense to me why the United States allows so many cars to be imported when GM, Ford and Chrysler are always loosing more and more money. The big three cant build enough cars for us Americans?

Its the same up here in Canada. If the government wants to help the big three, I say mirror the import laws of Japan and Korea.

Originally Posted by fastfret7

Stop cutting corners, build a high quality car, listen to the people, and GM should not have to worry about the failing market.

The problem is, GM has practically stopped cutting corners, builds quality cars, and listens to the people BUT the perception is that everything that GM makes is a POS.

[BeermanSS]

GM does build some great cars now. They just need the perception to change. It is harder to get customers back that you have lost. It is the hardest thing to do. Once you've lost them. It is really really hard to get them back. Its much easier to keep them, which is why GM needed to address their quality, designs, etc years ago. Before they lost all these customers to Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc.


But look at their recent hits

CTS
Malibu
Silverado
Tahoe
Escalades
STS
Solstice/Sky
G8

All these cars are great and, other than STS, nearly or are the best in their class.

Forgot to mention
Traverse looks really good
VOLT could be a gamechanger and most importantly

CAMARO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[playhard67]

Nows the time to invest in GM. Like Camarofan1, I will be purchasing stock next week. There is noooooo way, GM will go under. The Gov't will offer them the loan they need to keep afloat.

and like fbodfather said...check what other foreign companies have done to help their car manufacturers - Japan paid 100% for the battery technology for the Prius. I didn't hear the Japanese nationals complain about this...and now they're better off because of it.

[BeermanSS]

Wow I just suggested axing Pontiac, the performance division with a long history, and Saturn YAWN, and nobody disagreed. I must be onto something.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

Wow I just suggested axing Pontiac, the performance division with a long history, and Saturn YAWN, and nobody disagreed. I must be onto something.

I'll disagree if you want.

Saturns are becoming rebadged Opels -Sky, Astra, Aura. Its a good foundation, and Saturns is the brand most likely to lure people away from Honda and Toyota. Pontiac, if it loses every shred of performance then it should go away. One change that I would like to see for each brand is droping the sportier Saturns, otherwise known as Pontiac _____ GXP's. Let Saturn return to its roots as an eco-brand, a 260 hp roadster just doesn't sound like a Saturn to me. Likewise, kill every economy Pontiac out there. We have a Pontiac Wave up here, aka G3, aka Chevy Aveo, aka Daewoo Kalos. There is no point to this vehicle. The G5/Pursiut is questionable, leave it as a coupe in GT and GXP form and it would be fine.

[BeermanSS]

I knew there had to be somebody. JK All the different brands in my opinion are just added cost to production. Saturns are getting more european flare, your right. But they just don't sell as many saturns as chevys. And if you build those cars with chevy bowties you'll still sell just as many but with less retooling costs, less dealership costs, less costs all around.

In fact they do, sort of, Aura=Malibu, G6, and Lacrosse, Sky and Solstices could easily be a Chevy. The astra could be chevy too. Make them good cars, and If you wanted to make them a little nicer, more refined, more luxury make them a buick. A buick two seater roadster for the older crowd. Tell me that wouldn't sell. I think you could sell Chevys or Buicks to people that would buy a Pontiac or Saturn without losing any customers.